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Old 10-08-2012, 09:09 PM
Emmanuel Seyman
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

* Matthew Miller [08/10/2012 23:04] :
>
> Is there more?

You'll need icons, licenses, ratings, reviews and a (much) more detailed
description than the one in the .desktop file. Bonus points if you include
screenshots as well.

Emmanuel
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:09 PM
Stephen John Smoogen
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On 8 October 2012 14:39, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...] There needs to be web design, web
>> application coding, processes for getting applications in and
>> approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part
>> and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service
>> going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult.
>
> No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an
> application submission process either, just present the applications
> we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages).
> The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that
> want to maintain this code are also present.
> What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires
> support from the infrastructure team).

Dude.. metadata has to be served from something. It has to be updated
from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client.
That is a web application. The software has to be stored somewhere to
be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers, and
other infrastructure.

And applications which go into a store need some way to be sorted and
viewed by people outside of the application.. tada another web
application.

And yes there will need to be a submission process because the first
time we end up serving someone who put Oracle DB or someone elses
software in it.. we in infrastructure will know about it and be told
to get rid of it immediately plus deal with whatever other legal
issues involved. Or when MP3 or other Fedora forbidden items show up,
we in infrastructure will have to deal with the cleanup there too.


--
Stephen J Smoogen.
"Don't derail a useful feature for the 99% because you're not in it."
Linus Torvalds
"Years ago my mother used to say to me,... Elwood, you must be oh
so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I
recommend pleasant. You may quote me." —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:18 PM
drago01
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8 October 2012 14:39, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...] There needs to be web design, web
>>> application coding, processes for getting applications in and
>>> approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part
>>> and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service
>>> going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult.
>>
>> No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an
>> application submission process either, just present the applications
>> we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages).
>> The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that
>> want to maintain this code are also present.
>> What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires
>> support from the infrastructure team).
>
> Dude..

...

> metadata has to be served from something.

I did not claim otherwise.

> It has to be updated from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client.

Yes that's what I was taling about (create it at compose time). It
gets to the client the same way the packages get to the client
(downloaded from the mirrors via HTTP or FTP).

> That is a web application.

No it isn't.

> The software has to be stored somewhere to
> be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers, and
> other infrastructure.

This is not about a webportal .... just some files on the mirrors in
addition to the existing metadata.

> And applications which go into a store need some way to be sorted and
> viewed by people outside of the application.. tada another web
> application.

No this will be done using a native frontend ... did you even read the
mail you are replying to?

> And yes there will need to be a submission process because the first
> time we end up serving someone who put Oracle DB or someone elses
> software in it.. we in infrastructure will know about it and be told
> to get rid of it immediately plus deal with whatever other legal
> issues involved. Or when MP3 or other Fedora forbidden items show up,
> we in infrastructure will have to deal with the cleanup there too.

You entirely missed the point. So I will try again one more time the
applications == rpms currently in the repo. There is no submission
process other then the usual package review which we always had.

So please take some time to read other peoples mails before replying
and base your answers on that, thanks.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:07 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 11:09:17PM +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
> > Is there more?
> You'll need icons, licenses, ratings, reviews and a (much) more detailed
> description than the one in the .desktop file. Bonus points if you include
> screenshots as well.

Oh; yes -- that's an Open Collaboration Server on the Freedesktop spec:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services

So there's that.



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Old 10-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 03:09:38PM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> Dude.. metadata has to be served from something. It has to be updated
> from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client.
> That is a web application. The software has to be stored somewhere to

Well, looks like in the plan, at least _some_ of it is repo metadata.


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Old 10-08-2012, 10:12 PM
Stephen John Smoogen
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On 8 October 2012 15:09, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8 October 2012 14:39, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...] There needs to be web design, web
>>> application coding, processes for getting applications in and
>>> approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part
>>> and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service
>>> going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult.
>>
>> No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an
>> application submission process either, just present the applications
>> we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages).
>> The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that
>> want to maintain this code are also present.
>> What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires
>> support from the infrastructure team).
>
> Dude.. metadata has to be served from something. It has to be updated
> from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client.

My unreserved apologies to drago and others. My tone was not
constructive and very condescending.

--
Stephen J Smoogen.
"Don't derail a useful feature for the 99% because you're not in it."
Linus Torvalds
"Years ago my mother used to say to me,... Elwood, you must be oh
so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I
recommend pleasant. You may quote me." —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:16 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 11:18:33PM +0200, drago01 wrote:
> > That is a web application.
> No it isn't.
> > The software has to be stored somewhere to
> > be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers, and
> > other infrastructure.
> This is not about a webportal .... just some files on the mirrors in
> addition to the existing metadata.

This is why we need a clear plan, because right now everyone is talking
about a different imagined thing. I *think* you're just talking about
getting the appdata.xml metadata from desktop files into the mirrors:
http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation#Mirror
(I see also that I missed the "icons" tar.gz that needs to go alongside
that.)

But the whole Freedesktop plan has a whole bunch of other parts. Is that
what we're talking about implementing in general?

http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation

Is this the best architecture for Fedora? Does it provide the user
experience we want? If so (or if not, but we want to do something else
instead), what does the non-abstract version of that diagram look like for
our implementation? Who will do what parts, where will they run, and who
will keep those parts running?


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Old 10-08-2012, 10:23 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 18:16:28 -0400
Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 11:18:33PM +0200, drago01 wrote:
> > > That is a web application.
> > No it isn't.
> > > The software has to be stored somewhere to
> > > be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers,
> > > and other infrastructure.
> > This is not about a webportal .... just some files on the mirrors in
> > addition to the existing metadata.
>
> This is why we need a clear plan, because right now everyone is
> talking about a different imagined thing. I *think* you're just
> talking about getting the appdata.xml metadata from desktop files
> into the mirrors:
> http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation#Mirror
> (I see also that I missed the "icons" tar.gz that needs to go
> alongside that.)

The last time this came up, some folks wanted to put all the icons and
app desktop file data into a package and ship it and install it by
default. Others found this a bad idea and wanted to generate the data
on the server side and serve it to folks. The folks wishing to push the
package are stalled in legal (because shipping a package with all icons
in it means that each icon is under the license of whatever package it
came from, making the resulting rpm license... very silly). The folks
who wanted to generate the data as far as I know didn't get to far
toward doing so, AFAIK.

So, yes, this would need a clear plan.

> But the whole Freedesktop plan has a whole bunch of other parts. Is
> that what we're talking about implementing in general?
>
> http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation
>
> Is this the best architecture for Fedora? Does it provide the user
> experience we want? If so (or if not, but we want to do something else
> instead), what does the non-abstract version of that diagram look
> like for our implementation? Who will do what parts, where will they
> run, and who will keep those parts running?

If we decide this is the way we want to go, any such work would need to
use the Infrastructure Request for Resources process:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Request_For_Resources

kevin
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