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Old 04-08-2008, 06:51 PM
"Kelly Miller"
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

Well, I've been running KDE4 in various forms over the last few months, and I have some comments about the current state of the KDE4 entry in Rawhide (which is likely going to be the one in Fedora 9)...

1)* Um, with the exception of Fedora, every version of KDE4 I've seen now has an option for Plasma Theme in Configure Desktop.* Would it be too much work to port it here?

2)* Interestingly, Fedora's version of KDE4 seems to be the only one where the size option of the panels seems to actually be respected; even in KDE's own repository, this didn't seem to be the case until recently.* That makes me very happy, as I'm a stickler for small details like this, but that's a small opinion...

3)* XSettings-KDE.* Is there going to be any work on getting this to work with KDE4?* I do notice that KDE3 apps listen to it (at least, that's my feeling), but GTK apps don't seem to do the same...
4)* Is there a reason Nepomuk is left out?* Just asking.

5)* I'm going to have to suggest, after a couple of months, that it might be an idea to switch the window manager to something other than KWin temporarily.* KWin is horribly unstable as-is, and I believe it also leaks memory periodically (I've had cases where KWin steals 80+% of the system resources and no other program can get at them at all).* Personally, I stopped using it and adjusted KDE's windows to use Metacity instead, just for now.

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Old 04-08-2008, 07:09 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

Kelly Miller wrote:


> 1) Um, with the exception of Fedora, every version of KDE4 I've seen now
> has an option for Plasma Theme in Configure Desktop. Would it be too much
> work to port it here?

Pointers? References?

> 2) Interestingly, Fedora's version of KDE4 seems to be the only one where
> the size option of the panels seems to actually be respected

that should be stock kde-4.0.3 behavior.

> 3) XSettings-KDE. Is there going to be any work on getting this to work
> with KDE4?

Not that I know of. Would be nice to have.

> 4) Is there a reason Nepomuk is left out? Just asking.

Nopomuk is kde-4.1 territory.

> 5) I'm going to have to suggest, after a couple of months, that it might
> be an idea to switch the window manager to something other than KWin
> temporarily.

If you're seeing issues, report them, and work will start to address them.
I've heard a few folks report similarly, and the common thread in all of
these reports is "NVidia binary driver"... hint hint.

-- Rex


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Old 04-08-2008, 07:19 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

Kelly Miller <lightsolphoenix <at> gmail.com> writes:
> Well, I've been running KDE4 in various forms over the last few months, and I
> have some comments about the current state of the KDE4 entry in Rawhide

Thank you for your feedback!

> (which is likely going to be the one in Fedora 9)...

Right.

> 1)* Um, with the exception of Fedora, every version of KDE4 I've seen now has
> an option for Plasma Theme in Configure Desktop.* Would it be too much work
> to port it here?

As far as I know, this is a KDE 4.1 feature. Some distributions are backporting
significant parts of Plasma from KDE 4.1. Fedora's Plasma is mostly vanilla
4.0.3 with only two small 4.1 backports related to the simple (classic) menu.

The plan is to have KDE 4.1 in an update when it's ready (unless it fails
testing spectacularly, of course), until then our feeling is that the version
of Plasma which upstream is actually releasing as stable is going to serve most
of our users better.

> 2)* Interestingly, Fedora's version of KDE4 seems to be the only one where
> the size option of the panels seems to actually be respected; even in KDE's
> own repository, this didn't seem to be the case until recently. That makes me
> very happy, as I'm a stickler for small details like this, but that's a small
> opinion...

Our Plasma is from KDE 4.0.3 (as all of our KDE 4 packages), that's almost the
latest from the 4.0 branch. So the bugfixes and features which upstream is
backporting to 4.0.x are all in Fedora 9, only the ones which are 4.1-only
aren't.

The other distributions will most likely eventually end up with this fix too
unless the issue you're seeing is a regression in 4.1.

> 3)* XSettings-KDE.* Is there going to be any work on getting this to work
> with KDE4?* I do notice that KDE3 apps listen to it (at least, that's my
> feeling), but GTK apps don't seem to do the same...

KDE doesn't use xsettings at all, the KDE 3 apps are looking directly at the
configuration settings (we're using shared configuration directories for KDE 3
and 4), not listening to xsettings-kde.

> 4)* Is there a reason Nepomuk is left out?* Just asking.

Nepomuk should be there! I've worked a lot on getting the dependencies
packaged. Is anything missing?

> 5)* I'm going to have to suggest, after a couple of months, that it might be
> an idea to switch the window manager to something other than KWin
> temporarily.

Sorry, this is not going to happen. Especially now that KWin supports
compositing and desktop effects, which means we don't have to ship Compiz by
default on the KDE Live spin anymore. (Compiz is available as an option though,
yum install compiz-kde and run "Compiz Switcher".)

> KWin is horribly unstable as-is, and I believe it also leaks memory
> periodically (I've had cases where KWin steals 80+% of the system resources
> and no other program can get at them at all).

Interesting, this is the first time we receive such a complaint. Any bugs
filed? (The best place is probably upstream bugs.kde.org.) Did you enable
effects/compositing in systemsettings? (If so, try disabling it, that feature
isn't fully tested yet.)

> Personally, I stopped using it and adjusted KDE's windows to use Metacity
> instead, just for now.

It's good that this works for you, but Metacity is not really an option as the
default WM in KDE, it doesn't really integrate.

Kevin Kofler

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Old 04-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

Rex Dieter <rdieter <at> math.unl.edu> writes:
> Nopomuk is kde-4.1 territory.

There's some Nepomuk stuff in 4.0 too, but maybe not what Kelly is looking for.

Kevin Kofler

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Old 04-08-2008, 08:03 PM
"Kelly Miller"
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler@chello.at> wrote:


> 1)* Um, with the exception of Fedora, every version of KDE4 I've seen now has

> an option for Plasma Theme in Configure Desktop.* Would it be too much work

> to port it here?



As far as I know, this is a KDE 4.1 feature. Some distributions are backporting

significant parts of Plasma from KDE 4.1. Fedora's Plasma is mostly vanilla

4.0.3 with only two small 4.1 backports related to the simple (classic) menu.



The plan is to have KDE 4.1 in an update when it's ready (unless it fails

testing spectacularly, of course), until then our feeling is that the version

of Plasma which upstream is actually releasing as stable is going to serve most

of our users better.*Yeah, that's what I figured.* I only brought this one up because AFAIK, the capability for it is in the upstream 4.0 release; there just wasn't a way of configuring it outside of* editing the config file manually until recently, and since KDE-Look is running a contest for Plasma Themes right now, I had a feeling you might get some questions about it when Fedora 9 is released.





> 3)* XSettings-KDE.* Is there going to be any work on getting this to work

> with KDE4?* I do notice that KDE3 apps listen to it (at least, that's my

> feeling), but GTK apps don't seem to do the same...



KDE doesn't use xsettings at all, the KDE 3 apps are looking directly at the

configuration settings (we're using shared configuration directories for KDE 3

and 4), not listening to xsettings-kde.*Okay, than what I'm seeing here is obviously a bug in the shared configuration, because when I had xsettings-kde installed, KDE3 apps matched KDE4 apps, but now KDE3 apps seem to be using something else ( though I can only really see it in the fonts, which seem to be using some other anti-alias settings than the ones I set).* I doubt I have to mention that KDE and Gnome seem to have different opinions on what really ought to be the same font measurements, and I've gotten used to ignoring that, but it seems really odd that KDE3 and KDE4 seem to use different font measurements as well... and neither of them match Gnome, either...




> 4)* Is there a reason Nepomuk is left out?* Just asking.



Nepomuk should be there! I've worked a lot on getting the dependencies

packaged. Is anything missing?*I'm referring to the SystemSettings module Nepomuk (though it's obviously more of a Strigi configuration screen); I believe the service itself is there.


*> KWin is horribly unstable as-is, and I believe it also leaks memory


> periodically (I've had cases where KWin steals 80+% of the system resources

> and no other program can get at them at all).



Interesting, this is the first time we receive such a complaint. Any bugs

filed? (The best place is probably upstream bugs.kde.org.) Did you enable

effects/compositing in systemsettings? (If so, try disabling it, that feature

isn't fully tested yet.)I don't have effects on at all.* If no one else is reporting problems, it might just be that I have a REALLY bad video card, which doesn't even support DRI under X, and so I can't do anything related to 3D and generally can't run anything that uses OpenGL at all...


Also, would it be possible to package some version of the Autostart SystemSettings module?* I actually have one that works under the current Fedora setup, and Autostart is rather convinient...



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Old 04-08-2008, 10:13 PM
Orion Poplawski
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

My comment (not sure where to file so posting here):

- Menu items seem sorted weird - Seem to be sorted by the second line
entry that gets display when you hover over the item, but it uses a
different name for the main large title. Very confusing.



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Old 04-09-2008, 12:30 AM
Kelly Miller
 
Default KDE4: Some General Comments

Orion Poplawski wrote:

My comment (not sure where to file so posting here):

- Menu items seem sorted weird - Seem to be sorted by the second line
entry that gets display when you hover over the item, but it uses a
different name for the main large title. Very confusing.
The menu items aren't sorted at all. My main section has things placed
utterly hap-hazardly; I think it's simply because the sorting part isn't
done yet. And don't even get me started on KMenuEdit right now... it
reminds me of working with the Xfce Menu Editor...


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