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Old 04-01-2008, 02:12 PM
Mark
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

Hey,

I was just about to install gimp or so i thought.
I didn't look in Applications -> Graphics to see if gimp was already
there. This time it was but i found that out after i did: yum -y
install gimp.

Now for the feature or bug in yum.
When you have a application installed and then yum: yum -y install
gimp then yum first needs to download updates of it's repository.. do
something else and than it simply tells me: Package
2:gimp-2.4.5-1.fc9.i386 already installed and latest version

But wouldn't it be best if yum FIRST checks if the package is already
installed and if it is then ask the user to check for updates?

I know i can use rpm -qi gimp to see if i get information or nothing
indicating it's installed or not but having this in yum before it does
anything would be nice.

Mark

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Old 04-01-2008, 02:18 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

Mark wrote:

Hey,

I was just about to install gimp or so i thought.
I didn't look in Applications -> Graphics to see if gimp was already
there. This time it was but i found that out after i did: yum -y
install gimp.

Now for the feature or bug in yum.
When you have a application installed and then yum: yum -y install
gimp then yum first needs to download updates of it's repository.. do
something else and than it simply tells me: Package
2:gimp-2.4.5-1.fc9.i386 already installed and latest version

But wouldn't it be best if yum FIRST checks if the package is already
installed and if it is then ask the user to check for updates?


Unless yum checks the repository, it can't tell you whether the version
you have is the latest or not. I am not sure I understand your
suggestion. Can you explain further?


Rahul

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Old 04-01-2008, 02:30 PM
Mark
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

2008/4/1, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org>:
> Mark wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I was just about to install gimp or so i thought.
> > I didn't look in Applications -> Graphics to see if gimp was already
> > there. This time it was but i found that out after i did: yum -y
> > install gimp.
> >
> > Now for the feature or bug in yum.
> > When you have a application installed and then yum: yum -y install
> > gimp then yum first needs to download updates of it's repository.. do
> > something else and than it simply tells me: Package
> > 2:gimp-2.4.5-1.fc9.i386 already installed and latest version
> >
> > But wouldn't it be best if yum FIRST checks if the package is already
> > installed and if it is then ask the user to check for updates?
>
>
> Unless yum checks the repository, it can't tell you whether the version
> you have is the latest or not. I am not sure I understand your
> suggestion. Can you explain further?
>
> Rahul

Well. let yum first check if the package you try to install is already
installed (version independent) than let yum (if it finds a installed
package) ask the user if he/she wants to check for updates of that
package.

Pseudo code style..
yum list install gimp [1]
if yum found gimp
- ask to look for updates and install them if the user answers "y"
else
- install gimp

[1] I noticed that yum wants to update his local repository here as
well. I think it's better to get that behaviour out yum and only
update it's local repo if there is none available or a update command
is given or a install command is given.

Hope that explains it better.

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Old 04-01-2008, 03:22 PM
James Antill
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 16:30 +0200, Mark wrote:

> Well. let yum first check if the package you try to install is already
> installed (version independent) than let yum (if it finds a installed
> package) ask the user if he/she wants to check for updates of that
> package.
>
> Pseudo code style..
> yum list install gimp [1]
> if yum found gimp
> - ask to look for updates and install them if the user answers "y"
> else
> - install gimp

You can ask for this in a BZ, or on the yum-devel mailing list. It
would be a change in behaviour, and I'm not sure it's a good one ... but
you could ask.
Of course you can do "yum list gimp" now, before asking it to install
things and the recent versions of yum will give you an answer very
quickly.

> [1] I noticed that yum wants to update his local repository here as
> well. I think it's better to get that behaviour out yum and only
> update it's local repo if there is none available or a update command
> is given or a install command is given.

No, no, no, NO. I appreciate that apt-get works this way, and so people
are somewhat used to manually managing their metadata ... but it is
absolutely the _wrong_ approach.
What you might want to do is to up the metadata_expire value[1] and you
almost certainly want to be running yum-updatesd, but with the
downloads/updates turned off (as it will then refresh the metadata when
you aren't waiting on it).


[1] You _can_ set the metadata_expire value to never expire and yum
makecache would then be the apt-get update analogue.
But I can't stress enough how broken this behaviour is, in the general
case. It's as if your web browser always cached everything forever and
you had to hit shift reload for it to ever speak to the network ... but
worse.

--
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Fedora

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Old 04-01-2008, 07:29 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 6:30 AM, Mark <markg85@gmail.com> wrote:

Pseudo code style..

yum list install gimp [1]

if yum found gimp

*- ask to look for updates and install them if the user answers "y"

else

*- install gimp



[1] I noticed that yum wants to update his local repository here as

well. I think it's better to get that behaviour out yum and only

update it's local repo if there is none available or a update command

is given or a install command is given.



Hope that explains it better.



Human: I want to see what version of a package I have installed without doing network access.

Yum command:* yum list installed packagename

Human I want to see if there is an update of that package available


Yum command* yum list updates packagename

I dont see a reason why yum needs to be interactive and prompt for a chain of queries..when you can do the queries yourself in whatever order you desire.

-jef



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Old 04-01-2008, 07:50 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

Jeff Spaleta wrote:



On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 6:30 AM, Mark <markg85@gmail.com
<mailto:markg85@gmail.com>> wrote:


Pseudo code style..
yum list install gimp [1]
if yum found gimp
- ask to look for updates and install them if the user answers "y"
else
- install gimp

[1] I noticed that yum wants to update his local repository here as
well. I think it's better to get that behaviour out yum and only
update it's local repo if there is none available or a update command
is given or a install command is given.

Hope that explains it better.



Human: I want to see what version of a package I have installed without
doing network access.


Yum command: yum list installed packagename

Human I want to see if there is an update of that package available

Yum command yum list updates packagename

I dont see a reason why yum needs to be interactive and prompt for a
chain of queries..when you can do the queries yourself in whatever order
you desire.


The main reason would be that for most of the commands, yum decides for
itself each time whether or not it will spend several minutes chatting
with repositories and mucking around the rpm database before getting
back to the human that may have not typed the right question the first
time. Meanwhile the human will get bored and read email lists to fill
his time.


--
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Old 04-01-2008, 07:53 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:

The main reason would be that for most of the commands, yum decides for

itself each time whether or not it will spend several minutes chatting

with repositories and mucking around the rpm database before getting

back to the human that may have not typed the right question the first

time. *Meanwhile the human will get bored and read email lists to fill

his time.


yum -C list installed gimp

-jef
*


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Old 04-01-2008, 08:06 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 14:50 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:

> The main reason would be that for most of the commands, yum decides for
> itself each time whether or not it will spend several minutes chatting
> with repositories and mucking around the rpm database before getting
> back to the human that may have not typed the right question the first
> time. Meanwhile the human will get bored and read email lists to fill
> his time.

Feel free to back up the above with some numbers, please. Yum shouldn't
spend anytime 'mucking around the rpm database'. If you can find a place
where it is please let us know in a bug report.

If you want to run yum w/o having it access remote locations then do
what james said, set your metadata expiration to -1 so it never expires
and use that.

-sv


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Old 04-01-2008, 08:15 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

Jeff Spaleta wrote:






The main reason would be that for most of the commands, yum decides for
itself each time whether or not it will spend several minutes chatting
with repositories and mucking around the rpm database before getting
back to the human that may have not typed the right question the first
time.


yum -C list installed gimp


It still wastes a lot of time, although I'm looking at fc6 - maybe it is
better on newer versions:


# time rpm -q gimp
gimp-2.2.17-1.fc6
real 0m0.129s

[root@moola ~]# time yum -C list installed gimp
Loading "downloadonly" plugin
Loading "installonlyn" plugin
Installed Packages
gimp.i386 2:2.2.17-1.fc6 installed
real 0m3.566s

And it gets worse on machines with more repos installed.

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Old 04-01-2008, 08:22 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Feature or bug? (strange?) yum behaviour

On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 15:15 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > The main reason would be that for most of the commands, yum decides for
> > itself each time whether or not it will spend several minutes chatting
> > with repositories and mucking around the rpm database before getting
> > back to the human that may have not typed the right question the first
> > time.
> >
> >
> > yum -C list installed gimp
>
> It still wastes a lot of time, although I'm looking at fc6 - maybe it is
> better on newer versions:
>
> # time rpm -q gimp
> gimp-2.2.17-1.fc6
> real 0m0.129s
>
> [root@moola ~]# time yum -C list installed gimp
> Loading "downloadonly" plugin
> Loading "installonlyn" plugin
> Installed Packages
> gimp.i386 2:2.2.17-1.fc6 installed
> real 0m3.566s
>
> And it gets worse on machines with more repos installed.

yum latest on fc6 is over 15 releases of yum ago.

And that's been over a year.

Please don't make comments about things from that long ago.

-sv


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