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Old 03-31-2008, 08:16 AM
Ola Thoresen
 
Default Too many default services on

Harald Hoyer wrote:
> Trying a yum everything install, I found out, that booting now takes
> endlessly.
>
> # ls /etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S*|wc -l
> 95
>
> Please review, if the packages really need to be "on" after an install.
>
<snip>

I would argue that since this was an "everything" install, most of these
services are not enabled by default, but by installing the (non default)
package.
And that if I install a specific package, I would want the service to
start as default (or else I would not have installed the package in the
first place).


Rgds.

Ola (T)


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Old 03-31-2008, 08:37 AM
Harald Hoyer
 
Default Too many default services on

Trying a yum everything install, I found out, that booting now takes endlessly.

# ls /etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S*|wc -l
95

Please review, if the packages really need to be "on" after an install.

# for i in /etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S*; do rpm -qf /etc/init.d/${i/*S[0-9][0-9]/};done | sort -u
acpid-1.0.6-6.fc9.i386
anacron-2.3-59.fc9.i386
apmd-3.2.2-7.i386
apt-0.5.15lorg3.94-3.fc9.i386
at-3.1.10-22.fc9.i386
audio-entropyd-1.0.1-2.fc9.i386
audit-1.6.9-1.fc9.i386
autofs-5.0.3-7.i386
avahi-0.6.22-9.fc9.i386
bcfg2-0.9.5.7-1.fc9.noarch
bcfg2-server-0.9.5.7-1.fc9.noarch
bluez-utils-3.26-1.fc9.i386
Canna-3.7p3-23.fc9.i386
certmaster-0.19-1.fc9.noarch
cman-2.0.60-3.fc7.i386
cobbler-0.8.2-1.fc9.noarch
condor-7.0.0-6.fc9.i386
cpuspeed-1.2.1-5.fc9.i386
cronie-1.0-5.fc9.i386
dbus-1.1.20-1.fc9.i386
dkms-2.0.17.6-1.fc9.noarch
firestarter-1.0.3-18.fc9.i386
fnfx-0.3-11.fc9.i386
func-0.18-1.fc9.noarch
fuse-2.7.3-2.fc9.i386
fyre-1.0.1-5.fc9.i386
hal-0.5.11-0.2.rc2.fc9.i386
heartbeat-2.1.3-1.fc9.i386
i8kutils-1.25-14.i386
ices-2.0.1-6.fc9.i386
ifplugd-0.28-7.fc8.i386
initscripts-8.67-1.i386
iptables-ipv6-1.4.0-4.fc9.i386
irqbalance-0.55-9.fc9.i386
iscsi-initiator-utils-6.2.0.868-0.3.fc9.i386
kerneloops-0.10-8.fc9.i386
kexec-tools-1.102pre-6.fc9.i386
koji-builder-1.2.3-1.fc9.noarch
koji-utils-1.2.3-1.fc9.noarch
ldirectord-2.1.3-1.fc9.i386
libvirt-0.4.1-4.fc9.i386
mcstrans-0.2.7-2.fc9.i386
microcode_ctl-1.17-1.42.fc9.i386
nas-1.9.1-3.fc9.i386
nessus-server-2.2.10-4.fc9.i386
NetworkManager-0.7.0-0.9.1.svn3476.fc9.i386
nfs-utils-1.1.1-4.fc9.i386
oki4linux-2.1gst-3.fc9.i386
openct-0.6.14-4.fc9.i386
openser-1.3.1-3.fc9.i386
openslp-server-1.2.1-9.fc9.i386
openssh-server-4.7p1-9.fc9.i386
openswan-2.6.09-2.fc9.i386
pcsc-lite-1.4.4-3.fc9.i386
plague-0.4.4.1-4.fc7.noarch
plague-builder-0.4.4.1-4.fc7.noarch
policycoreutils-2.0.46-2.fc9.i386
pop-before-smtp-1.41-2.fc6.noarch
qemu-0.9.1-4.fc9.i386
qpidd-0.2-17.fc9.i386
readahead-1.4.2-5.fc9.i386
rpcbind-0.1.4-14.fc9.i386
rsyslog-3.12.3-1.fc9.i386
sagator-1.0.0-1.fc9.noarch
sendmail-8.14.2-3.fc9.i386
ser-0.9.6-14.fc9.i386
ser2net-2.4-2.fc9.1.i386
setroubleshoot-server-2.0.6-1.fc9.noarch
smolt-1.1.1.1-1.fc9.noarch
snort-2.7.0.1-6.fc9.i386
sysstat-8.0.4-3.fc9.i386
tog-pegasus-2.7.0-6.fc9.i386
torque-mom-2.1.10-5.fc9.i386
torque-scheduler-2.1.10-5.fc9.i386
torque-server-2.1.10-5.fc9.i386
udev-118-11.fc9.i386
util-vserver-sysv-0.30.214-2.fc8.i386
uuidd-1.40.8-1.fc9.i386
wine-core-0.9.56-1.fc9.i386
xen-3.2.0-10.fc9.i386
xen-runtime-3.2.0-10.fc9.i386
xguest-1.0.6-6.fc9.noarch
xinetd-2.3.14-18.fc9.i386
yum-updatesd-0.9-1.fc9.noarch
zoneminder-1.22.3-12.fc9.i386

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:24 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Too many default services on

Ola Thoresen wrote:


And that if I install a specific package, I would want the service to
start as default (or else I would not have installed the package in the
first place).


That isn't necessarily true. It depends on where and how the software is
being deployed.


Rahul

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:25 AM
"Izhar Firdaus"
 
Default Too many default services on

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Ola Thoresen <redhat@olen.net> wrote:
> Harald Hoyer wrote:
> > Trying a yum everything install, I found out, that booting now takes
> > endlessly.
> >
> > # ls /etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S*|wc -l
> > 95
> >
> > Please review, if the packages really need to be "on" after an install.
> >
> <snip>
>
> I would argue that since this was an "everything" install, most of these
> services are not enabled by default, but by installing the (non default)
> package.
> And that if I install a specific package, I would want the service to
> start as default (or else I would not have installed the package in the
> first place).
>

I would expect a service to not start until I configure it, and enable
it explicitly. Installing packages doesnt mean I want to use it ..
(eg: httpd's libs is a dependency for some app in fedora livecd .. but
that doesnt mean I want httpd to start on boot )



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Old 03-31-2008, 09:43 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Too many default services on

Ola Thoresen wrote:


I would argue that since this was an "everything" install, most of these
services are not enabled by default, but by installing the (non default)
package.
And that if I install a specific package, I would want the service to
start as default (or else I would not have installed the package in the
first place).


And I argue that is *not* the case at least for *some* of the packages.

Example: Fyre is a graphic application, "a tool for producing
computational artwork based on histograms of iterated chaotic functions".


It also install a service, fyre-cluster, which is on by default.
However, this service is not needed by the average Fyre user (or even
for the large majority of users).


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Old 03-31-2008, 11:35 AM
Dennis Jacobfeuerborn
 
Default Too many default services on

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Ola Thoresen wrote:


And that if I install a specific package, I would want the service to
start as default (or else I would not have installed the package in the
first place).


That isn't necessarily true. It depends on where and how the software is
being deployed.


Quite frankly I'd say even in the case of services that usually are
expected to be started as default (e.g. httpd) I think I could live with
having to manually activate it.


I see two exceptions: sshd and "local" services like e.g. dbus, beagle,
etc. that don't listen on external IPs and that you cannot really expect
the user to activate manually.


Regards,
Dennis

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Old 03-31-2008, 01:00 PM
Patrice Dumas
 
Default Too many default services on

On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 01:35:46PM +0200, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
>
> Quite frankly I'd say even in the case of services that usually are
> expected to be started as default (e.g. httpd) I think I could live with
> having to manually activate it.

httpd requires to be setup before started. But even in the case of more
straigthforward network services, they should never be started, since
one may only want to install them and start them only after some actions
(start a specific interface, start vpns, modify routing and firewalling
or whatever).

> I see two exceptions: sshd and "local" services like e.g. dbus, beagle,
> etc. that don't listen on external IPs and that you cannot really expect
> the user to activate manually.

Indeed. There are a lot of such services in the list, so it is not easy
to know which ones are right and which ones are wrong.

For sshd, it is debatable to have it started automatically, since it is
a network facing service, but I think that it is a reasonable exception
given that in many case it can be the only way to login to the
computer after installation.

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Old 03-31-2008, 01:29 PM
"Jhann B. Gumundsson"
 
Default Too many default services on

There does not seemed to be any rule to whats enabled and what's not.
Package maintainer's and or developers seem to decide for them self
whether service

is enabled/disabled by default.

The proper way to do this is to only enabled system and network needed
services

for a functional and network connected system by default.

The rest of the services being enabled/disabled in firstboot either
individually ( advanced control )

or group together in a big buttons for more noob user friendly solution
For example Enable Blutetooh ( user clicks on that and all bluetooth
related services are enabled )

Enabled printing ( Cups and printing related service enabled )
etc..

Already filled an RFE for this and hopefully it will make F-X

Best regards
Johann B.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:50 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Too many default services on

Jhann B. Gumundsson wrote:

There does not seemed to be any rule to whats enabled and what's not.
Package maintainer's and or developers seem to decide for them self
whether service

is enabled/disabled by default.

The proper way to do this is to only enabled system and network needed
services

for a functional and network connected system by default.

The rest of the services being enabled/disabled in firstboot either
individually ( advanced control )

or group together in a big buttons for more noob user friendly solution
For example Enable Blutetooh ( user clicks on that and all bluetooth
related services are enabled )

Enabled printing ( Cups and printing related service enabled )
etc..

Already filled an RFE for this and hopefully it will make F-X


If you are talking about RFE's or bug reports, please provide the bz
number.


Rahul

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Old 03-31-2008, 02:11 PM
John Dennis
 
Default Too many default services on

Jhann B. Gumundsson wrote:

There does not seemed to be any rule to whats enabled and what's not.
Package maintainer's and or developers seem to decide for them self
whether service

is enabled/disabled by default.


My understanding is rpm's which install a service do *not* start the
service in %post via chkconfig for all the reasons cited in the thread
(i.e. the sys admin or owner decides what should be running, how it's
configured,e etc. merely installing an rpm should not start a hidden
service). There are a minority of exceptions, services which must run to
make the system usable, these are well known. It is permissible to
perform a condrestart in %post, but this is just respecting the existing
configuration on the box.


These are the guidelines as I've always understood them. I wonder if
part of the problem lies in the new LSB blocks which have been added to
many initscripts without a complete understanding of what some of the
boilerplate actually does, e.g. Default-Start.


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