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Old 03-30-2008, 01:48 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

Hi All,

I'd like to get some review on this proposal so that it can be presented
at this Thursday's FESCo meeting. It can be found on the wiki at:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoshBoyer/BodhiAnonymousKarmaProposal

Comments are always welcome.

josh




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Old 03-30-2008, 02:53 PM
drago01
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'd like to get some review on this proposal so that it can be presented
> at this Thursday's FESCo meeting. It can be found on the wiki at:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoshBoyer/BodhiAnonymousKarmaProposal
>
> Comments are always welcome.

I would rather force anonymous to enter an email address.
This can still be abused but lets try it and see how it turns out.
It also adds the possibility for maintainers to contact the testers
(comments like "does not work" are useless).
The email address should not be visibly to other anonymous users.

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Old 03-30-2008, 03:33 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 16:53 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'd like to get some review on this proposal so that it can be presented
> > at this Thursday's FESCo meeting. It can be found on the wiki at:
> >
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoshBoyer/BodhiAnonymousKarmaProposal
> >
> > Comments are always welcome.
>
> I would rather force anonymous to enter an email address.
> This can still be abused but lets try it and see how it turns out.

Hm, maybe. So then bodhi would have to track email addresses and make
sure duplicate email addresses don't get to karma vote more than once
for a particular package. We can add that as a discussion point, but
I'm not overly thrilled with it.

> It also adds the possibility for maintainers to contact the testers
> (comments like "does not work" are useless).
> The email address should not be visibly to other anonymous users.

I have another proposal I'm in the middle of writing for how to deal
with negative karma votes. It's essentially "negative karma votes
require a bugzilla entry".

josh

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Old 03-30-2008, 04:16 PM
drago01
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 16:53 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I'd like to get some review on this proposal so that it can be presented
> > > at this Thursday's FESCo meeting. It can be found on the wiki at:
> > >
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoshBoyer/BodhiAnonymousKarmaProposal
> > >
> > > Comments are always welcome.
> >
> > I would rather force anonymous to enter an email address.
> > This can still be abused but lets try it and see how it turns out.
>
> Hm, maybe. So then bodhi would have to track email addresses and make
> sure duplicate email addresses don't get to karma vote more than once
> for a particular package. We can add that as a discussion point, but
> I'm not overly thrilled with it.

I am not sure that having non maintainers (=users) not able to vote is
the right thing to do.

>
> > It also adds the possibility for maintainers to contact the testers
> > (comments like "does not work" are useless).
> > The email address should not be visibly to other anonymous users.
>
> I have another proposal I'm in the middle of writing for how to deal
> with negative karma votes. It's essentially "negative karma votes
> require a bugzilla entry".

OK, this works too.

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Old 03-30-2008, 05:21 PM
"David Nielsen"
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

2008/3/30, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com>:
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>**I'd like to get some review on this proposal so that it can be presented

>**at this Thursday's FESCo meeting.**It can be found on the wiki at:
>
>**http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoshBoyer/BodhiAnonymousKarmaProposal

>
>**Comments are always welcome.


I would rather force anonymous to enter an email address.
This can still be abused but lets try it and see how it turns out.
It also adds the possibility for maintainers to contact the testers

(comments like "does not work" are useless).
The email address should not be visibly to other anonymous users.
This does seem like the sanest approach, doing away with anon voting takes away a valuable source of input and worse still it encourages account sprawl.. nobody these days likes to open accounts just for one vote, till OpenID is implemented and people start getting accounts, I guess that we will see less feedback, if I wasn't in the system already as a contributor I certainly wouldn't open an account to vote on a single update.


Another problem seems to be that we aren't encouraging users to go vote on packages, it's not a feature of Fedora we display very prominently. I would love to see us encourage ordinary users to help us out. Just increasing the amount of feedback would likely drown the occasional multiple voter.


- David


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Old 03-30-2008, 05:42 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 18:16 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 16:53 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to get some review on this proposal so that it can be presented
> > > > at this Thursday's FESCo meeting. It can be found on the wiki at:
> > > >
> > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoshBoyer/BodhiAnonymousKarmaProposal
> > > >
> > > > Comments are always welcome.
> > >
> > > I would rather force anonymous to enter an email address.
> > > This can still be abused but lets try it and see how it turns out.
> >
> > Hm, maybe. So then bodhi would have to track email addresses and make
> > sure duplicate email addresses don't get to karma vote more than once
> > for a particular package. We can add that as a discussion point, but
> > I'm not overly thrilled with it.
>
> I am not sure that having non maintainers (=users) not able to vote is
> the right thing to do.

Sorry, I should have elaborated on what I wasn't overly thrilled with.
I like the idea in principle, but requiring an e-mail address moves it
from "Anonymous" to "non-registered". That might be fine, I just worry
about the privacy issues.

josh

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Old 03-30-2008, 07:19 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

Josh Boyer <jwboyer <at> gmail.com> writes:
> I have another proposal I'm in the middle of writing for how to deal
> with negative karma votes. It's essentially "negative karma votes
> require a bugzilla entry".

That's a bad idea, the reason for a negative karma vote is not always a bug,
for example, packages can be -1ed for reasons like "this shouldn't go out
before package Y goes out, please either add Y to this update or hold it until
the Y update gets pushed".

Kevin Kofler

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Old 03-30-2008, 08:21 PM
Andrew Farris
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

Kevin Kofler wrote:

Josh Boyer <jwboyer <at> gmail.com> writes:

I have another proposal I'm in the middle of writing for how to deal
with negative karma votes. It's essentially "negative karma votes
require a bugzilla entry".


That's a bad idea, the reason for a negative karma vote is not always a bug,
for example, packages can be -1ed for reasons like "this shouldn't go out
before package Y goes out, please either add Y to this update or hold it until
the Y update gets pushed".


Wouldn't those be logged in users though (or at least.. should be). Maybe only
anon negative karma votes should need a bz entry with them?


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gpg 0xC99B1DF3 fingerprint CDEC 6FAD BA27 40DF 707E A2E0 F0F6 E622 C99B 1DF3
No one now has, and no one will ever again get, the big picture. - Daniel Geer
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:30 PM
"David Nielsen"
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

2008/3/30, Andrew Farris <lordmorgul@gmail.com>:
Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Josh Boyer <jwboyer <at> gmail.com> writes:
>> I have another proposal I'm in the middle of writing for how to deal
>> with negative karma votes.**It's essentially "negative karma votes

>> require a bugzilla entry".
>
> That's a bad idea, the reason for a negative karma vote is not always a bug,
> for example, packages can be -1ed for reasons like "this shouldn't go out

> before package Y goes out, please either add Y to this update or hold it until
> the Y update gets pushed".


Wouldn't those be logged in users though (or at least.. should be).**Maybe only

anon negative karma votes should need a bz entry with them?
It seems a little like requiring a higher threshhold for saying something bad about Fedora than saying something good which certainly is not a desirable signal to send.


Also remember an anon negative vote can be -1 (Also affected by about mentioned problem), thus no need for a bz entry but it does give us valuable information in that it is not a single user experiencing this problem - for the kernel e.g. this might be affects multiple archs, multiple configurations of hardware, information the anon user might be encouraged to add to the bugzilla report.

*


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Old 03-30-2008, 08:30 PM
"David Nielsen"
 
Default Proposal: Bodhi Anonymous Karma

2008/3/30, Andrew Farris <lordmorgul@gmail.com>:
Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Josh Boyer <jwboyer <at> gmail.com> writes:
>> I have another proposal I'm in the middle of writing for how to deal
>> with negative karma votes.**It's essentially "negative karma votes

>> require a bugzilla entry".
>
> That's a bad idea, the reason for a negative karma vote is not always a bug,
> for example, packages can be -1ed for reasons like "this shouldn't go out

> before package Y goes out, please either add Y to this update or hold it until
> the Y update gets pushed".


Wouldn't those be logged in users though (or at least.. should be).**Maybe only

anon negative karma votes should need a bz entry with them?
It seems a little like requiring a higher threshhold for saying something bad about Fedora than saying something good which certainly is not a desirable signal to send.


Also remember an anon negative vote can be -1 (Also affected by about mentioned problem), thus no need for a bz entry but it does give us valuable information in that it is not a single user experiencing this problem - for the kernel e.g. this might be affects multiple archs, multiple configurations of hardware, information the anon user might be encouraged to add to the bugzilla report.

*


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