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Old 09-19-2011, 05:04 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

tim.lauridsen@gmail.com wrote:
> <trolling>
> Why don't you just replace rpm, with deb too, while you are at it ?
> </trolling>

* Because dpkg is missing essential RPM features (e.g. file and soname
dependencies).

* Because replacing RPM essentially means creating a new distribution,
whereas the depsolver can be easily replaced, and in fact you can even use
multiple depsolvers on the same machine at the same time (well, you can't do
the transactions simultaneously, obviously, but you can have both installed
and use one or the other as you see fit).

Sorry, couldn't resist feeding the troll. ;-)

Kevin Kofler

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Old 09-19-2011, 05:08 PM
Matthew Garrett
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:51:29PM -0400, Doug Ledford wrote:

> I wouldn't have thought that. I would have thought that if the
> Requires was already satisfied by phonon-backend-xine, that processing
> would stop there. You have no need for suggests or recommends either
> one when the dependency is already satisfied IMO. But, I didn't write
> any spec around that, so it may be implemented differently in the real
> (deb) world.

It is.

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Old 09-19-2011, 05:33 PM
Richard Hughes
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 19 September 2011 17:41, Jef Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've installed this zif from koji and I'm still not able to complete a "zif
> install paprefs" transaction with realworld F15 configured public repository
> set, whereas all the yum based tools: yum. repoquery etc... complete as
> expected.
> Guys what's going on with zif?

Can you open a ticket on Red Hat bugzilla please, component "zif" and
attach the output of "zif install paprefs -v"
I've not tested zif on F15 in a loooong time and it's probably just a
trivial bug. Thanks.

Richard.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:55 PM
Jef Spaleta
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you open a ticket on Red Hat bugzilla please, component "zif" and

attach the output of "zif install paprefs -v"

I've not tested zif on F15 in a loooong time and it's probably just a

trivial bug. Thanks.



Filed :** Bug 739701


-jef

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Old 09-20-2011, 01:47 PM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Mon, 2011-09-19 at 18:11 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 5:46 PM, tim.lauridsen@gmail.com
> <tim.lauridsen@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler@chello.at> wrote:
> >> Matthew Garrett wrote:
> >>> Debian policy is that any virtual dependencies must also have an
> >>> explicit dependency. In your case it would be something like
> >>>
> >>> Requires: phonon-backend-gstreamer | phonon-backend
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, RPM does not support this idiom.
> >>
> > <trolling>
> > Why don't you just replace rpm, with deb too, while you are at it ?
> > </trolling>
>
> Well as long as the tools we are talking about
> 1) Do use rpm
> 2) Do valid dependency resolution (i.e not --nodeps or something like that)
>
> I don't see why we shouldn't allow them.
>
> lets say
>
> yum install foo does:
> foo, bar1, baz1
>
> $nonyumtool install foo does:
> foo, bar2, baz2
>
> Both bar1/baz1 and bar2/baz2 are valid deps for foo (both statify the
> dependency).
>
> So why would it matter what in the end?

I guess the discussion is more about if you extend your scenario this
way (and I'm picking DEs only as an example here, please don't start a
flamefest about it, there are worthier causes):

- bar1/baz1 are GNOME providers of bar/baz
- bar2/baz2 are KDE/XFCE/other DE providers of bar/baz
- GNOME is installed on the machine, but not KDE/XFCE/other DE

In that case, you really want bar1/baz1 to be installed over the others
(which would pull in KDE/XFCE/other DE base libraries), even though the
other solution is correct dependency-wise.

A much trickier scenario would be if a (say multi-user, terminal server)
machine had both GNOME and KDE/XFCE/other DE installed: it may be
desirable to install both bar1/baz1 and bar2/baz2 so users of each DE
got their own native providers of bar/baz. I don't think we can describe
this intended outcome in ways of RPM requirements today, and it'd
probably be pretty hard even with Suggests/Recommends because it partly
depends on policy, i.e. what the admin wants. Nothing in the system can
tell the package manager right now if which of these options should be
used in this case.

Nils
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nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:51 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 13:20 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:

> (That said, there definitely needs to be a way to disable it, and maybe it
> should even be disabled by default. I personally always uninstall yum-
> presto. For me, it's much faster to just download packages than to rebuild
> them from deltas. Only users on really slow connections benefit from it.)

My desktop can rebuild deltas at ~3MB/sec. So even my really fast
internet connection is slower than delta rebuild.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:04 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Mon, 2011-09-19 at 18:11 +0200, drago01 wrote:

> So I don't get what this flamefest is all about ...

catching up on the thread at a remove of a couple of weeks, I'd say
mostly it's about giant, swinging....egos.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:54 AM
Steve Clark
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 10/05/2011 01:51 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 13:20 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:



(That said, there definitely needs to be a way to disable it, and maybe it
should even be disabled by default. I personally always uninstall yum-
presto. For me, it's much faster to just download packages than to rebuild
them from deltas. Only users on really slow connections benefit from it.)



My desktop can rebuild deltas at ~3MB/sec. So even my really fast
internet connection is slower than delta rebuild.


This is a meaningless comment to other
people unless you provide

information on what the specs of your desktop are or the speed of
your internet connection.



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Old 10-05-2011, 08:44 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 06:54 -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
> On 10/05/2011 01:51 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Sat, 2011-09-17 at 13:20 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >
> > > (That said, there definitely needs to be a way to disable it, and maybe it
> > > should even be disabled by default. I personally always uninstall yum-
> > > presto. For me, it's much faster to just download packages than to rebuild
> > > them from deltas. Only users on really slow connections benefit from it.)
> > My desktop can rebuild deltas at ~3MB/sec. So even my really fast
> > internet connection is slower than delta rebuild.

> This is a meaningless comment to other people unless you provide
> information on what the specs of your desktop are or the speed of your
> internet connection.

No, it isn't, because Kevin rashly made an absolutely categorical
statement that 'Only users on really slow connections' benefit from it.
You don't need to know what speed my personal internet connection is to
know that 3MB/sec (that's mega*bytes*, remember, internet connections
are specified in mega*bits* - 3MB/sec is 24Mb/sec) is a hell of a lot
faster than many internet connections can manage, handily contradicting
his assertion. Yes, my desktop is very fast, but so what? Kevin's
statement wasn't conditional upon system specs.

(My connection is actually specced at 25Mb/sec, but it rarely manages
that to a Fedora mirror; I usually get about 8Mb/sec for package
downloads).
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:35 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Tue, Oct 04, 2011 at 10:51:43PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > (That said, there definitely needs to be a way to disable it, and maybe it
> > should even be disabled by default. I personally always uninstall yum-
> > presto. For me, it's much faster to just download packages than to rebuild
> > them from deltas. Only users on really slow connections benefit from it.)
> My desktop can rebuild deltas at ~3MB/sec. So even my really fast
> internet connection is slower than delta rebuild.

Your internet connection is clearly not fast enough.

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Harvard School of Engineering & Applied Sciences
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