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Old 09-17-2011, 09:54 AM
Richard Hughes
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 17 September 2011 10:38, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> Yeah, it looks possible.
> The very fact that you're exposing a C API and a library is a
> promising start, even if it didn't yet do specifically what I needed.

Would it be easier if I provided a GIR file so you can just use
gobject-introspection?

Anyway, let me know if zif falls short or looks odd as an API and I'll
see what I can do.

Richard.
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:58 AM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

Richard Hughes wrote:
> Anyway, if anyone wants to know the fesco ticket, it's here:
> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/669

Thanks for actually posting the link!


To Seth: What a bunch of nonsense!
This is a more serious proposal:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ZifByDefaultForDesktop
IMHO, Elad's proposal makes a lot of sense and I fully support it.

Kevin Kofler

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Old 09-17-2011, 10:05 AM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 10:54:35AM +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
> On 17 September 2011 10:38, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, it looks possible.
> > The very fact that you're exposing a C API and a library is a
> > promising start, even if it didn't yet do specifically what I needed.
>
> Would it be easier if I provided a GIR file so you can just use
> gobject-introspection?

I don't mind as long as it's callable from other languages (either
using generated bindings like GIR or using hand written bindings).

I would just caution that I found GIR was not expressive enough to
implement libguestfs bindings. Specifically it lacked support for
optional arguments and structs (unless encapsulated as an object). I
don't know whether or not that would affect zif.

Rich.

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Old 09-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Richard Hughes
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 17 September 2011 11:05, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> I don't mind as long as it's callable from other languages (either
> using generated bindings like GIR or using hand written bindings).

I've just pushed:

commit 4132eb5a40e1a6a85358e96f7adfd3cf56e8ef3f
Author: Richard Hughes <richard@hughsie.com>
Date: Sat Sep 17 11:34:34 2011 +0100

Enable GObject introspection support

> I would just caution that I found GIR was not expressive enough to
> implement libguestfs bindings. *Specifically it lacked support for
> optional arguments and structs (unless encapsulated as an object). *I
> don't know whether or not that would affect zif.

Ohh, 99.9% of Zif is using GObjects and GTypes, so I don't think that
will be a problem here.

Richard.
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Old 09-17-2011, 10:59 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 09/17/2011 06:22 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> It's quite funny that you're accusing Richard of being incompatible with yum
> when the incompatibilities that matter most to our users have been required
> by yum developers, in particular:
> * no writing to the yum database by default,
> * no parsing yum.conf by default.

Adding a conflicts to yum against zif was a inappropriate use of
conflicts and must have been resolved in a better way. The animosity
between people working on competing solutions is leading to a proposal
which really wouldn't fly. Having said that, I think zif needs to be
command line compatible and support delta RPMs by default for it to be
the default backend for the desktop and I really don't think desktop
environments should have a different dep resolver from the rest of
Fedora. I don't know if I want to use zif yet but Richard Hughes
should aim for a comprehensive solution instead of just addressing the
PackageKit problem in a narrow way because I think the problem
PackageKit is facing is also true for other tools. Libguestfs has
already come out as an example.

Rahul
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:20 AM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Adding a conflicts to yum against zif was a inappropriate use of
> conflicts and must have been resolved in a better way. The animosity
> between people working on competing solutions is leading to a proposal
> which really wouldn't fly. Having said that, I think zif needs to be
> command line compatible and support delta RPMs by default for it to be
> the default backend for the desktop and I really don't think desktop

Delta RPM support is listed as one of the 3 things which don't work yet, so
I'm pretty sure it's planned.

(That said, there definitely needs to be a way to disable it, and maybe it
should even be disabled by default. I personally always uninstall yum-
presto. For me, it's much faster to just download packages than to rebuild
them from deltas. Only users on really slow connections benefit from it.)

> environments should have a different dep resolver from the rest of
> Fedora.

While I think Fedora would benefit from using zif throughout (mainly because
it's in a compiled language, not in Python), I don't agree that this should
be a requirement for using zif in PackageKit. PackageKit should use what is
best suited for its needs, which yum clearly isn't.

> I don't know if I want to use zif yet but Richard Hughes
> should aim for a comprehensive solution instead of just addressing the
> PackageKit problem in a narrow way because I think the problem
> PackageKit is facing is also true for other tools. Libguestfs has
> already come out as an example.

Richard Hughes is being receptive to other uses of zif than PackageKit, see
the subthread with Richard W.M. Jones.

Kevin Kofler

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Old 09-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 09/17/2011 04:50 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> While I think Fedora would benefit from using zif throughout (mainly because
> it's in a compiled language, not in Python), I don't agree that this should
> be a requirement for using zif in PackageKit. PackageKit should use what is
> best suited for its needs, which yum clearly isn't.

You misunderstood me. I don't think it is requirement but I just think
a broader plan needs to be in place and deal with the politics of it
head on. I have the same opinion on using the software centre UI in
Fedora for that matter. Fork if necessary and get the job done.

Rahul
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:34 AM
Richard Hughes
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On 17 September 2011 11:59, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think zif needs to be command line compatible and support delta RPMs

The former should work pretty well. If I've missed any obvious aliases
yell and I'll add them. The latter is 80% implemented, but I don't use
delta-rpms myself and it was left for somebody else to do. It would be
a nice little project for someone wanting to get to know Zif
internally. I can write up exactly what needs to be done if you mail
me offlist.

If delta-rpms support is a must-have then I can probably finish it in
a day or so. No biggie. :-)

> ...I think the problem PackageKit is facing is also true for other tools.

I agree. I've just merged the GIR generation into master, so hopefully
it would be possible to do things like use Zif from PHP and Javascript
in the future.

Richard.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:56 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

Richard Hughes wrote:

> On 17 September 2011 11:59, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...I think the problem PackageKit is facing is also true for other tools.
>
> I agree. I've just merged the GIR generation into master, so hopefully
> it would be possible to do things like use Zif from PHP and Javascript
> in the future.

And Python too, I suppose?
/me starts cursorily looking in the general direction of Anaconda. ;-)

Kevin Kofler

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Old 09-17-2011, 01:14 PM
Michael Schroeder
 
Default how to have yum prefer one dependency over others

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 03:38:55AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > If you have decided you are going to do something different with Zif
> > anyway, you might as well as work with the zypper team and see whether
> > you can make something out of it. So much of what we do in Fedora is
> > built around yum though and I don't know what you have planned but go
> > through years of subtle bugs in a new dep resolver stops being funny
> > quickly.
>
> Unfortunately, zypp has some design flaws of its own. In particular, it
> spawns the rpm command line as an external process for some operations
> instead of using librpm as it's supposed to (yet other operations use the
> library).

libzypp is actually a library on top of libsatsolver (now renamed
to libsolv). If you want a lightweight package dependency solver
you should probably use libsolv directly.

(It also contains python bindings and a simple python demo program
which uses a single rpm transaction to do the work.)

Url: https://github.com/opensuse/libsolv

Cheers,
Michael.

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