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Old 08-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Michael Cronenworth
 
Default floppy support

Jos Vos wrote:
> We just have to wait till people come up with the argument that serial
> or parallel ports don't exist anymore.

No. You're making an apples to orange comparison. Just like Jon has done
this whole thread.

This bike shedding as gone on long enough.

Remove ddate. Karel, you're upstream. Do it.

P.S. Your argument will be moot when the kernel drops the floppy module.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:31 PM
"Jon Ciesla"
 
Default floppy support

> Jos Vos wrote:
>> We just have to wait till people come up with the argument that serial
>> or parallel ports don't exist anymore.
>
> No. You're making an apples to orange comparison. Just like Jon has done
> this whole thread.
>
> This bike shedding as gone on long enough.

Playing devil's advocate != bikeshedding. But, I agree that this
discussion is aging rapidly.

> Remove ddate. Karel, you're upstream. Do it.
>
Now *this* makes sense. I never advocated ddate being preserved in lucite
forevermore. I just wanted a sane reason to deviate from upstream. if
upstream drops it, the point is moot, and I think that's fine.

> P.S. Your argument will be moot when the kernel drops the floppy module.

Is there actually a plan for this to happen? Curious, not arguing here.

-J
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in your fear, seek only love

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Old 08-29-2011, 05:03 PM
Dave Jones
 
Default floppy support

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:31:09AM -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote:

> > P.S. Your argument will be moot when the kernel drops the floppy module.
>
> Is there actually a plan for this to happen? Curious, not arguing here.

Not any time soon.

Dave

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Old 08-30-2011, 03:58 AM
Michael Cronenworth
 
Default floppy support

On 08/29/2011 10:22 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> It is very irritating, since I only use floppies when I really need to,

Is this due to the need to boot into DOS to run a firmware utility or
something similar? If so, you can create a bootable, DOS USB flash
drive. I haven't had a need for a floppy disk in years.
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:06 AM
Chris Jones
 
Default floppy support

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Michael Cronenworth <mike@cchtml.com> wrote:

On 08/29/2011 10:22 PM, Chris Adams wrote:

> It is very irritating, since I only use floppies when I really need to,



Is this due to the need to boot into DOS to run a firmware utility or

something similar? If so, you can create a bootable, DOS USB flash

drive. I haven't had a need for a floppy disk in years.


I can't see any reason for floppies these days considering their extreme price per data unit as opposed to usb memory.


I don't flash much these days. And for times when I feel the need to, I go about it by whatever other means is necessary to avoid anything to do with floppies.

That's not to say that the Linux kernel should not support floppy drives. That's an entirely different discussion really.



Regards

Chris Jones



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Old 08-30-2011, 06:36 AM
Felix Miata
 
Default floppy support

On 2011/08/30 15:06 (GMT+1000) Chris Jones composed:

> I can't see any reason for floppies these days considering their extreme
> price per data unit as opposed to usb memory.

For some people the price of floppies is a sunk cost, or was never a cost at
all (e.g. me, who has over a hundred empty ones acquired 5, 10 or 20 years
ago, some at 0 price).

Unlike USB chips in most budgets, each floppy is cheap enough to be
disposable after one use or dedicated to one small file.

Floppies have enough room on them to write down something legible about their
content (e.g. DOS boot with FDISK; Memtest86+ v.whatever; BIOS flash for xyz
brand AMI BIOS; etc.) which won't interfere with insertion or removal from
its reader.

Floppies are large enough to be much less likely than a USB stick to get lost
between couch cushions or fit through a pocket hole.

Not everyone uses hardware with installed and functional OM, bootable USB or PXE.

A rude installer might unset a bootable flag or fail to install boot code in
the MBR of the only available internal storage, leaving the primary boot
device unbootable, and a floppy the only available device to boot from
without opening up the machine, if opening up is even any option at all.

IOW, poor as they are, floppies still have both advantages and uses.
--
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words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:40 AM
drago01
 
Default floppy support

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2011/08/30 15:06 (GMT+1000) Chris Jones composed:
>
>> I can't see any reason for floppies these days considering their extreme
>> price per data unit as opposed to usb memory.
>
> For some people the price of floppies is a sunk cost, or was never a cost at
> all (e.g. me, who has over a hundred empty ones acquired 5, 10 or 20 years
> ago, some at 0 price).
>
> Unlike USB chips in most budgets, each floppy is cheap enough to be
> disposable after one use or dedicated to one small file.
>
> Floppies have enough room on them to write down something legible about their
> content (e.g. DOS boot with FDISK; Memtest86+ v.whatever; BIOS flash for xyz
> brand AMI BIOS; etc.) which won't interfere with insertion or removal from
> its reader.
>
> Floppies are large enough to be much less likely than a USB stick to get lost
> between couch cushions or fit through a pocket hole.
>
> Not everyone uses hardware with installed and functional OM, bootable USB or PXE.
>
> A rude installer might unset a bootable flag or fail to install boot code in
> the MBR of the only available internal storage, leaving the primary boot
> device unbootable, and a floppy the only available device to boot from
> without opening up the machine, if opening up is even any option at all.

CD/DVD ?
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:48 AM
Nils Philippsen
 
Default floppy support

On Tue, 2011-08-30 at 08:40 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On 2011/08/30 15:06 (GMT+1000) Chris Jones composed:
> >
> >> I can't see any reason for floppies these days considering their extreme
> >> price per data unit as opposed to usb memory.
> >
> > For some people the price of floppies is a sunk cost, or was never a cost at
> > all (e.g. me, who has over a hundred empty ones acquired 5, 10 or 20 years
> > ago, some at 0 price).
> >
> > Unlike USB chips in most budgets, each floppy is cheap enough to be
> > disposable after one use or dedicated to one small file.
> >
> > Floppies have enough room on them to write down something legible about their
> > content (e.g. DOS boot with FDISK; Memtest86+ v.whatever; BIOS flash for xyz
> > brand AMI BIOS; etc.) which won't interfere with insertion or removal from
> > its reader.
> >
> > Floppies are large enough to be much less likely than a USB stick to get lost
> > between couch cushions or fit through a pocket hole.
> >
> > Not everyone uses hardware with installed and functional OM, bootable USB or PXE.
> >
> > A rude installer might unset a bootable flag or fail to install boot code in
> > the MBR of the only available internal storage, leaving the primary boot
> > device unbootable, and a floppy the only available device to boot from
> > without opening up the machine, if opening up is even any option at all.
>
> CD/DVD ?

"Write Once Read Many"? Wait... "Write Once Read Once" in this case. Not
cheap enough for that.

Nils
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Red Hat a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty
nils@redhat.com nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:02 PM
Chris Adams
 
Default floppy support

Once upon a time, Michael Cronenworth <mike@cchtml.com> said:
> On 08/29/2011 10:22 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> > It is very irritating, since I only use floppies when I really need to,
>
> Is this due to the need to boot into DOS to run a firmware utility or
> something similar? If so, you can create a bootable, DOS USB flash
> drive. I haven't had a need for a floppy disk in years.

That's nice that you haven't needed one, but I have. I try all kinds of
alternatives first (up to PXE booting syslinux to load memdisk and a
floppy image), but I have run into things that just really need an
actual floppy.

It isn't why I use floppies under Linux, but my mother's very expensive
computerized embroidery machine uses floppies to transfer patterns.
There are still things in the real world that exclusively use floppy
disks, and they aren't going away as rapidly as some seem to think.

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Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:38 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default floppy support

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:50:10 +0100,
Tom Hughes <tom@compton.nu> wrote:
> On 30/08/11 14:23, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>
> > I'll need to test it. Right now I use explicit modprobe commands in
> > rc.local, which isn't good for packages. I looked at modprobe.conf
> > documentation and it doesn't seem like it uses those files to determine
> > what to load, only what to do if it is loaded. So it may be that udev
> > is really the correct place to do things.
>
> Or modules-load.d if you want to force load a module.

Thanks, that sounds better.

I'll add making packages to do this to my to do list. They should be pretty
easy to do, so there's a good chance I'll get to it soon. I'll add a comment
to the thread when I have something ready for review.
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