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Old 08-30-2011, 07:49 PM
Przemek Klosowski
 
Default floppy support

On 08/30/2011 03:36 PM, Jef Spaleta wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Przemek Klosowski
> <przemek.klosowski@nist.gov <mailtorzemek.klosowski@nist.gov>> wrote:
>
>
> They connect to the floppy cable and look like a floppy drive.
>
>
> Bah, I'd think you'd want to go the other way if you could get an
> external usb based floppy reader which is autodetected on the usb bus.
> Anything that hangs off the onboard floppy controller is going to need
> some lovin.

Problem with the old equipment is that it often does not have USB or
indeed predates USB
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:53 PM
Chris Adams
 
Default floppy support

Once upon a time, Jef Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> said:
> Bah, I'd think you'd want to go the other way if you could get an external
> usb based floppy reader which is autodetected on the usb bus. Anything that
> hangs off the onboard floppy controller is going to need some lovin.

These are for embedded systems that use a standard PC-style floppy
controller. Replace the floppy drive with something else that still
looks to the system like a regular floppy drive.

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Old 08-30-2011, 08:13 PM
Bjrn Persson
 
Default floppy support

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Users who don't have a floppy
> drive and want to save some boot time can blacklist the driver manually.

s/Us/Hack/ to make that sentence true.

Bjrn Persson
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:25 PM
Przemek Klosowski
 
Default floppy support

On 08/30/2011 03:55 PM, Chris Adams wrote:

> How many systems are there that "hang forever" when the floppy module is
> loaded? I have never seen that happen, on systems with or without
> floppy drives, yet you seem to be saying it happens on vast numbers of
> them (99.9% in an earlier message).

It's not really 'forever', it just seems like 'forever'---remember those
sounds that go 'bzzzzzzut.... bzzzzzzzut... bzzzzzzut...' when the
floppy drive does a head seek during floppy controller init at boot.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:28 PM
Tomasz Torcz
 
Default floppy support

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 04:25:18PM -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On 08/30/2011 03:55 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
>
> > How many systems are there that "hang forever" when the floppy module is
> > loaded? I have never seen that happen, on systems with or without
> > floppy drives, yet you seem to be saying it happens on vast numbers of
> > them (99.9% in an earlier message).
>
> It's not really 'forever', it just seems like 'forever'---remember those
> sounds that go 'bzzzzzzut.... bzzzzzzzut... bzzzzzzut...' when the
> floppy drive does a head seek during floppy controller init at boot.


No, it really takes 3045 seconds before floppy module timeouts after
access to /dev/fd0. Seems like eternity, especially if you have
no other output on screen during this time.

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xmpp: zdzichubg@chrome.pl "God is more forgiving."

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Old 08-30-2011, 11:30 PM
Chris Jones
 
Default floppy support

The argument that some older hardware do not have USB support and require floppy support is moot.

I have 3 PCs in total. 2 desktops and 1 file server. The 2 desktops run Ubuntu/Linux and the server running BSD. The server is an old desktop system that has had various upgrades and various transformations throughout its life. But when I go back to its origins, it will be 10 years old now. And even in its early beginnings, it still had full usb support. And effectively having no 'real' use for floppies. Even though it did come with a floppy drive ootb.


I see it all the time. "Some older hardware still requires floppies..." It just seems like a generic defense statement for the fans of floppies and for those who insist on using them for god knows what reason.

Any hardware that is true to that statement must be at least 15 years old surely!
And for the cheap price of PCs these days, whether it is building your own or grabbing an oem system, just upgrade to something that does have full usb support.


USB sticks may be small and easy to lose, correct. But I don't know how many times I've put several of mine through the washing machine and they still continue to work. Try putting a floppy disk through the washing machine and then try reading the data and see what happens.

And as far as losing them, they always turn up again. And for permanent loss, I really don't care as I encrypt all my data when using usb sticks anyway. And if I don't find it, for $10 I can easily get another 8GB anyway.



Regards

Chris Jones



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Old 08-30-2011, 11:40 PM
Chris Adams
 
Default floppy support

Once upon a time, Chris Jones <chrisjones@comcen.com.au> said:
> I see it all the time. "Some older hardware still requires floppies..." It
> just seems like a generic defense statement for the fans of floppies and for
> those who insist on using them for god knows what reason.

Again, please stop trying to tell me what hardware to use. I have run
into several situations where I _must_ use a floppy. I don't want to,
and I've tried lots of other things first, but the floppy worked.

> Any hardware that is true to that statement must be at least 15 years old
> surely!

Hardly. I have a 6 year old notebook that will not book from USB.

> And for the cheap price of PCs these days, whether it is building your own
> or grabbing an oem system, just upgrade to something that does have full usb
> support.

Feel free to PayPal me money for a new notebook.

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Old 08-30-2011, 11:43 PM
Miloslav Trmač
 
Default floppy support

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Przemek Klosowski
<przemek.klosowski@nist.gov> wrote:
> On 08/30/2011 03:55 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
>
>> How many systems are there that "hang forever" when the floppy module is
>> loaded? *I have never seen that happen, on systems with or without
>> floppy drives, yet you seem to be saying it happens on vast numbers of
>> them (99.9% in an earlier message).
>
> It's not really 'forever', it just seems like 'forever'---remember those
> sounds that go 'bzzzzzzut.... bzzzzzzzut... bzzzzzzut...' when the
> floppy drive does a head seek during floppy controller init at boot.
I hope no software is still doing this - that was idiotic 10 years
ago, let alone now. (The purpose of the seek is to detect drives that
can support only "double density", i.e. 360K, 5.25" disks, not "high
density", i.e. 1.2M disks. It doesn't do anything useful for 3.5"
drives.)
Mirek
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:49 PM
Jef Spaleta
 
Default floppy support

2011/8/30 Miloslav Trmač <mitr@volny.cz>

I hope no software is still doing this - that was idiotic 10 years

ago, let alone now. *(The purpose of the seek is to detect drives that

can support only "double density", i.e. 360K, 5.25" disks, not "high

density", i.e. 1.2M disks. *It doesn't do anything useful for 3.5"

drives.)


bah you 3.5 inch floppy elitists!!!!!!* I have an original wolfenstein 3-D on 5.25 ' floppy...its its original sleeve...that I still use.* How dare you suggest that I give up my 5.25 inch floppy.* Its actually "floppy" unlike those hard plastic 3.5 inch cases.



-jef"Now if you wanted to suggest we finally drop support for the 8 inch floppy drives, than I would definitely support that."spaleta
*

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Old 08-30-2011, 11:52 PM
Felix Miata
 
Default floppy support

On 2011/08/31 09:30 (GMT+1000) Chris Jones composed:

> And for the cheap price of PCs these days, whether it is building your own
> or grabbing an oem system, just upgrade to something that does have full usb
> support.

So old PCs should fill landfills instead of going to people with no money for
upgrades, much less for any PC at all? It must be comforting to be oblivious
to world ecology and have an unlimited money supply. Upgrading is simply no
option for many users of FOSS.
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Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

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