On 07/26/2011 09:49 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 08:45:11AM -0430, Robert Marcano wrote:
>> In /etc/skel/.bash_profile they are added to the end and I think that is ok
>>
>> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
>
> This was added between bash-4.2.10 -2 and -3:
>
> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=bash.git;a=commitdiff;h=02b20d810111e8b53bb98ad 49fedd1d583ce62e1
>
> because of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699812
>
> There is some rationale in that bug, but I think it's extremely bogus.

bogus because... ?

I for one find it useful since e.g. "python setup.py install --user"
puts things in ~/.local/{bin,lib,etc}/

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On 07/26/2011 12:49 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

>> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
>
> This was added between bash-4.2.10 -2 and -3:
>
> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=bash.git;a=commitdiff;h=02b20d810111e8b53bb98ad 49fedd1d583ce62e1
>
> because of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699812
>
> There is some rationale in that bug, but I think it's extremely bogus.

Specifically, Lennart said that it was required by XDG which he
coauthored

There seem to be two arguments for this style: XDG seems to propose
.local/{bin,lib,...} hierarchy; also some people claimed that it's
easier to accidentally delete ~/bin as opposed to ~/.local/bin.
I am not convinced by either argument: ~/bin and ~/lib look just fine to
me, and accidental deletion is IMHO a strawman. Is there something I am
missing?
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Once upon a time, Przemek Klosowski <przemek.klosowski@nist.gov> said:
> On 07/26/2011 12:49 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>
> >> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
> >
> > This was added between bash-4.2.10 -2 and -3:
> >
> > http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=bash.git;a=commitdiff;h=02b20d810111e8b53bb98ad 49fedd1d583ce62e1
> >
> > because of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699812
> >
> > There is some rationale in that bug, but I think it's extremely bogus.
>
> Specifically, Lennart said that it was required by XDG which he
> coauthored

Well, ~/.local/share is the default for data. The XDG spec found here:

http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html

makes no reference of ~/.local/bin (or any other directories under
~/.local).

IMHO adding directories to the default path should get a little more
discussion than a single BZ request (and probably shouldn't be changed
mid-release without notice).
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On Tue, 26.07.11 15:05, Przemek Klosowski (przemek.klosowski@nist.gov) wrote:

>
> On 07/26/2011 12:49 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>
> >> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
> >
> > This was added between bash-4.2.10 -2 and -3:
> >
> > http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=bash.git;a=commitdiff;h=02b20d810111e8b53bb98ad 49fedd1d583ce62e1
> >
> > because of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699812
> >
> > There is some rationale in that bug, but I think it's extremely bogus.
>
> Specifically, Lennart said that it was required by XDG which he
> coauthored

Nah, the basedir spec does not mandate the bin subdir.

WHat I said in the bug report is that I think it makes a lot of sense to
have the XDG basedir stuff in the $PATH.

> There seem to be two arguments for this style: XDG seems to propose
> .local/{bin,lib,...} hierarchy; also some people claimed that it's
> easier to accidentally delete ~/bin as opposed to ~/.local/bin.
> I am not convinced by either argument: ~/bin and ~/lib look just fine to
> me, and accidental deletion is IMHO a strawman. Is there something I am
> missing?

I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have a visible directory for
binaries. People will see that, and be annoyed.

Note that there are a number of 3rd party projects making use of
~/.config/bin afaik, including jhbuild which installs its executable to
that dir.

Lennart

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On 07/26/2011 03:34 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:

>
> I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have a visible directory for
> binaries. People will see that, and be annoyed.

Perhaps, but hiding things annoys many people more ... not a huge deal
as .config is not too hidden anyway ...

>
> Note that there are a number of 3rd party projects making use of
> ~/.config/bin afaik, including jhbuild which installs its executable to
> that dir.
>

At the moment we have apps writing to both .config and .local/share
which seems ugly to me ... should these be merged ?

There def seems to be a lot of stuff in .config ... but slightly
better would be

~/config/bin

(not .config) and it would only contain links to

~/config/<app>/bin/<foo>










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Dne 26.7.2011 20:40, Bernd Stramm napsal(a):
> Oh it seems every useful for purposes like installing executables that
> most users will never find.

Actually I would prefer ~/.local/bin to ~/bin ... I actually use ~/ as
my workspace (I never got what's the point of ~/Desktop) so I don't
want to dump there a random junk. Until now I used ~/.bin but
standadized location would be certainly better.

Matěj

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Once upon a time, Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> said:
> Dne 26.7.2011 20:40, Bernd Stramm napsal(a):
> > Oh it seems every useful for purposes like installing executables that
> > most users will never find.
>
> Actually I would prefer ~/.local/bin to ~/bin ... I actually use ~/ as
> my workspace (I never got what's the point of ~/Desktop) so I don't
> want to dump there a random junk. Until now I used ~/.bin but
> standadized location would be certainly better.

I've used ~/bin since before Linux was available, so I don't really see
the point in trying to "hide" it (of course, I alias ls to "ls -FCA", so
~/.bin wouldn't be hidden, just one extra character to type when I need
to access it).
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27.07.2011, 10:17, "Chris Adams" <cmadams@hiwaay.net>:
> I've used ~/bin since before Linux was available, so I don't really see
> the point in trying to "hide" it (of course, I alias ls to "ls -FCA", so
> ~/.bin wouldn't be hidden, just one extra character to type when I need
> to access it).

Noone has asked to "hide it". :-) The proposal here is that both paths are included in $PATH by default. Your personal preference won't be hurt. In fact, it's a different story.

27.07.2011, 01:49, "Richard W.M. Jones" <rjones@redhat.com>:
>> *PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
>
> This was added between bash-4.2.10 -2 and -3:

I did a fresh install of F15 in the late May, and it's not there.

27.07.2011, 04:15, "Chris Adams" <cmadams@hiwaay.net>:
> IMHO adding directories to the default path should get a little more
> discussion than a single BZ request (and probably shouldn't be changed
> mid-release without notice).

Yes! Fedora *is* a place to do mid-release changes.

A notice, however, must be issued on critical changes (which is not the case here).

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On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 09:34:04PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have a visible directory for
> binaries. People will see that, and be annoyed.

(I have a suggestion, what about to install by default the old good
heroin kernel module? It was able to hide running processes, files,
etc.)

Seriously, use hidden directory in unnecessary.

> Note that there are a number of 3rd party projects making use of
> ~/.config/bin afaik, including jhbuild which installs its executable to
> that dir.

It would be nice to clean up $HOME, radically reduce the number of
the subdirectories and config files in the $HOME. If *all* the garbage
will be in ~/local/{etc,bin,lib,var/log} then nobody will care if the
directory is hidden. My wish is

$ ls -ls ~/
drwxrwxr-x. 31 kzak kzak 4096 Jul 26 15:54 .
drwxrwxr-x. 13 kzak kzak 4096 Jul 26 15:49 ..
drwxr-xr-x 2 kzak kzak 4096 Jul 26 15:54 local

and nothing other, .mozilla, vimrc, bash_profile, .xsession-errors,
etc. all could be in ~/local, but then the directory should be really
visible.

Karel

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On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:02:14PM -0700, Josh Stone wrote:
> On 07/26/2011 09:49 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 08:45:11AM -0430, Robert Marcano wrote:
> >> In /etc/skel/.bash_profile they are added to the end and I think that is ok
> >>
> >> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/.local/bin:$HOME/bin
> >
> > This was added between bash-4.2.10 -2 and -3:
> >
> > http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=bash.git;a=commitdiff;h=02b20d810111e8b53bb98ad 49fedd1d583ce62e1
> >
> > because of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699812
> >
> > There is some rationale in that bug, but I think it's extremely bogus.
>
> bogus because... ?

Bogus because this is the first I've heard of ~/.local/bin, speaking
as a Unix user since long before Linux existed.

It shouldn't be changed mid-way through Fedora 15.

It shouldn't be changed without serious discussion, instead of on the
basis of a single comment in a BZ.

What are the security implications of having a hidden path containing
binaries?

> I for one find it useful since e.g. "python setup.py install --user"
> puts things in ~/.local/{bin,lib,etc}/

You personally can add ~/.local/bin to your PATH if you want to. And
that's fine because you're not silently getting a hidden path to
binaries added that you don't know about.

Rich.

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