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Old 08-26-2011, 04:07 PM
Deepak Bhole
 
Default Java 7 for Fedora 16

* Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com> [2011-08-26 11:58]:
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:29:33AM -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote:
> >
> > Andrew Haley and I just had a chat about this.
> >
> > We both agree that weaning off the 1.6 dependency is the best long-term
> > solution. We essentially want it so that nothing in Fedora needs 1.6.
> >
> > That said, we will continue to ship 1.6 since 3rd party apps may need
> > it. We will however remove the alternatives for 1.6, so using them will
> > require the user to manually set JAVA_HOME to
> > /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.6.0..../ and call the java binary from that dir.
> > This will prevent someone from accidentally switching the system
> > alterne ative to 1.6 and having (1.7 built) apps fail.
> >
> Look into environment-modules as a possible aid to the end user :
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:EnvironmentModules
>
> I've always wondered why we used alternatives for java when it seems like
> it's a per user or per application setting rather than a per-host setting
> anyway.
>

With Fedora, we currently only distribute GCJ and OpenJDK6, and OpenJDK6
is fully capable of running everything GCJ can (on supported archs), so
there is no situation where one app needs one and another needs the
other.

Introduction of 1.7 is the first such case where this may hold true. And
even then, we would like the overlap to be as little as possible and
switch over to Java 7 completely.

Frankly, there is little if any need for alternatives for java in Fedora
given that there is only OpenJDK. However we keep it in case users want
to install 3rd party JDKs/JREs via the jpackage-wrapper RPM.

>
> > Are there any major objections to the above?
> >
> Yeah, I'm with Peter Robinson that this change is coming too late in the
> cycle. Alpha has already shipped. FESCo could disagree but it *must* go to
> FESCo for them to give you permission.
>

Oh definitely. I intend to get FESCo approval before making the
change. I just wanted to see if there were any objections here first..

> > In the mean time, I am going to start building all java packages
> > currently in F16 against 1.7 only to see the scope of changes that will
> > be needed.
> > to east
> >
> Do you need a separate build tag setup so you can do this testing without
> disturbing normal builds?
>

I am just using mock. Since it is just to test if Java 7 can build it, I
was going to install all BRs of packages that need java to build, and
then just build them one after another. It might be faster this way than
doing individual builds given the # of packages.

I will let you know if anything changes and I do need the tag though.
Thanks for the offer!

Cheers,
Deepak

> -Toshio


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Old 08-26-2011, 07:10 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Java 7 for Fedora 16

On Fri, 2011-08-26 at 11:29 -0400, Deepak Bhole wrote:

> Andrew Haley and I just had a chat about this.
>
> We both agree that weaning off the 1.6 dependency is the best long-term
> solution. We essentially want it so that nothing in Fedora needs 1.6.
>
> That said, we will continue to ship 1.6 since 3rd party apps may need
> it. We will however remove the alternatives for 1.6, so using them will
> require the user to manually set JAVA_HOME to
> /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.6.0..../ and call the java binary from that dir.
> This will prevent someone from accidentally switching the system
> alternative to 1.6 and having (1.7 built) apps fail.
>
> Are there any major objections to the above?

In theory, in the long run, no. In the short term, it sounds worrying:
remember the schedule -

http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-16/f-16-devel-tasks.html

there are less than two months until final freeze (2011-10-17), after
which you'll have no chance to mess with this stuff as none of it is
going to be taken as blocking final release. That seems like quite a
short time frame to make sure everything, or at least all the major
things, in Fedora build and work against Java 7.

I'd say go with the 'everything is Java 7 by default and Java 6 is only
around for backwards compatibility with 3rd-party stuff' plan only if
you're pretty confident you can have everything building and working
against Java 7, to an acceptable level of functionality, by mid-October.
And be really honest with yourself about the likelihood of that
happening.

And I agree with Toshio that this has to go through FESCo. It would be
good to present them with as comprehensive and realistic a survey as
possible of the pros and cons of the various possible approaches.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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