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Old 06-12-2011, 09:23 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before

* the system is running since years
* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
* now see screenshot
* WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param

WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE
THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER
ON UPDATES

I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS


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Old 06-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
> NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before
>
> * the system is running since years
> * every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
> * now see screenshot
> * WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param
>
> WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE
> THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER
> ON UPDATES
>
> I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
> FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
> IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS

BULL***, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! SOUND OFF LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!

josh
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:39 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

Am 12.06.2011 23:35, schrieb Josh Boyer:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>> PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
>> NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before
>>
>> * the system is running since years
>> * every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
>> * now see screenshot
>> * WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param
>>
>> WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE
>> THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER
>> ON UPDATES
>>
>> I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
>> FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
>> IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS
>
> BULL***, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! SOUND OFF LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!

there is nothing bullshit

why are users of running systems are forced to change their
init-system to "systemd"? "upstart" is in the repos but ignored

WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
to use it

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Old 06-12-2011, 09:43 PM
"John R. Dennison"
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:39:17PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
> and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
> comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
> to use it

I don't agree with the design or the implementation of systemd at all
but to call the developers idiots is a little harsh, don't you think?
And you shouting in a public mailing list doesn't do much to help your cause.

You've a strong tendency to go off at the least little thing, and not
only here. Might you consider toning it down? Just a little?





John

--
To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation.

-- Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799), German scientist,
satirist and philosopher, Notebook D (1773-1775)
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:45 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>
>
> Am 12.06.2011 23:35, schrieb Josh Boyer:
>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>>> PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
>>> NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before
>>>
>>> * the system is running since years
>>> * every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
>>> * now see screenshot
>>> * WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param
>>>
>>> WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE
>>> THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER
>>> ON UPDATES
>>>
>>> I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
>>> FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
>>> IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS
>>
>> BULL***, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! *SOUND OFF LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR!
>
> there is nothing bullshit

Oh, you were trying to have a conversation about something? Sorry,
with all the shouting I thought we were doing impromptu Gunnery
Sergeant Hartman quotes from Full Metal Jacket.

> why are users of running systems are forced to change their
> init-system to "systemd"? "upstart" is in the repos but ignored

I actually don't know the answer to this question other than "Fedora
switched to systemd".

> WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
> and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
> comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
> to use it

Amazing what one motivated maintainer and their package can accomplish
while everyone else is shouting.

josh
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

Am 12.06.2011 23:43, schrieb John R. Dennison:
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 11:39:17PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>> WTF every three years a new pig is forced to run through the city
>> and if any subsystem is runnign well and debugged some idiot
>> comes out of his hole and try replace and force everybody
>> to use it
>
> I don't agree with the design or the implementation of systemd at all

i agree with the design and idea but not with forcing every user
with since years perfectly running systems to use it without any
reason - the are hughe differences between a new setup and a
upgrade

and even on a new setup this should be a decision of the user
at the very beginning what init-system he wants to use


> but to call the developers idiots is a little harsh, don't you think?
> And you shouting in a public mailing list doesn't do much to help your
> cause.

sorry but it makes me crazy that intel-graphics on newer hardware
is slow and buggy like hell and thean cames somebody and says
"upgrade to Fedora 15" with his little desktop without any developer-tools
and services perfectly configured over years

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Old 06-12-2011, 09:54 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

Am 12.06.2011 23:45, schrieb Josh Boyer:

>> why are users of running systems are forced to change their
>> init-system to "systemd"? "upstart" is in the repos but ignored
>
> I actually don't know the answer to this question other than "Fedora
> switched to systemd"

cool - on linux the apple-way starts also?

great - the desicion force systemd for updated installations
is the best way to crap down the reputation of linux as a
system where the user can decide what he want to run


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Old 06-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Frank Murphy
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

On 12/06/11 22:54, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>
> Am 12.06.2011 23:45, schrieb Josh Boyer:
>
>>> why are users of running systems are forced to change their
>>> init-system to "systemd"? "upstart" is in the repos but ignored
<snip>

Try yum install upstart,
kernel arg init=/sbin/upstart
YMMV.

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Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of Fedora
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:00 PM
Mike Chambers
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 23:23 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

> I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
> FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
> IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS

Why run Fedora itself on 20 servers? Those are mission capable and in a
production environment? Might be free, but not sure I would run all
those on this type environment. A slower and more stable platform that
is free might be better.

That's beside the point, why are you not testing upgrades and working
out the issues yourself before even trying, in a test environment?
Actually, if they need no magic and are fast enough, why upgrade at all
right now and wait until everything is worked out?

Not telling you what to do, just bringing up different
points/suggestions.


--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY

"The best town on Earth!"

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Old 06-12-2011, 10:04 PM
John Dulaney
 
Default SYSTEMD: Give us a option for upstart

> PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
> NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before

No one is stopping you from packaging upstart (assuming someone hasn't done so) for F15.

*
> * the system is running since years
> * every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
> * now see screenshot
> * WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param
>
> WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE
> THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER
> ON UPDATES

No one is forcing you to use F15
*
> I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
> FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
> IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS

If you're running that many servers, then why are you running Fedora?* Considering
that Fedora has a stated mission to be the first to introduce new software and that
releases are only supported for thirteen months, would it not be wise to go with a
distribution that has a) more mature code and b) longer support?

John

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