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Old 06-13-2011, 07:13 AM
Lennart Poettering
 
Default Fedora 14 and "Sandy Bridge" graphics

On Sun, 12.06.11 18:59, Reindl Harald (h.reindl@thelounge.net) wrote:

>
> Am 12.06.2011 18:56, schrieb drago01:
> > On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 12.06.2011 18:53, schrieb drago01:
> >>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> upstart is still maintained and shipped, you should be able to install
> >>> and use it.
> >>
> >> and why in the world is systemd forced after a upgrade via yum where
> >> upstart was in use before - upgrades should left core configurations
> >> in peace!
> >
> > Upgrade usually means progress not stagnation, if you want to stay in
> > the past don't upgrade.
>
> you said "upstart is still maintained and shipped, you should be able to
> install and use it" - so how and why damned must be a init-replace
> in a early state forced on a existing system?

systemd surpasses Upstart in every way. It's not in an "early
state". Upstart is much more limited and hence in a much earlier state
feature-wise.

> normally this should be "systemd is also available for upgraded systems
> and you should be able to install and use it"

Yes, it was in F14.

Lennart

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Old 06-13-2011, 07:25 AM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora 14 and "Sandy Bridge" graphics

Am 13.06.2011 09:13, schrieb Lennart Poettering:

> systemd surpasses Upstart in every way. It's not in an "early
> state". Upstart is much more limited and hence in a much earlier state
> feature-wise.

in theory

the problem is that you are frcing bringing your baby to the users
in a braindead way it happended before with PulseAudio which also
made more troubles for 2-3 fedora releases as it solved

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=707507
laughable that such things are happening in the year 2011 and
not fixed in a hurry!

>> normally this should be "systemd is also available for upgraded systems
>> and you should be able to install and use it"
>
> Yes, it was in F14

And it should be minimum for F15/F16 for existing installations
get your beta userbase with new setups and not existing happy users!

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Old 06-13-2011, 05:33 PM
David Malcolm
 
Default Fedora 14 and "Sandy Bridge" graphics

On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 20:02 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 12.06.2011 19:28, schrieb Lucas:
>
> > Strange, I did exactly the same thing with Fedora 14, I add new kernel, changed xorg and intel driver.
> > But I have i686.
>
> mhh - strange - an trying to update glibc results in chaos
> "Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden" means "file not found" in english
> yes as advanced user i was able to repair this with some luck
>
> updating only the kernel/kernel-headers/kernel-devel results in
> no longer able to build kernel-modules (vmware-workstation)
>
> and this all for a graphics-driver?
> i remember times where feodra updated the kernel in the lifetime
> of a supported release and now you can do nothing if you do not
> want replace of "upstart" by "systemd", if systemd would not
> be hardly activated in F15 a dist-upgrade would be no problem
>
> BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

This kind of language is inappropriate on Fedora mailing lists. More
than the language, though, the "tone" of this thread is also
unfortunate.

It appears that you are unhappy and frustrated at the moment - I've seen
a few emails from you so far today in which you've used all-capitals
text. All-capitals text is perceived by most tech people as rude.

One of Fedora's goals is to be a fast-moving distribution: systemd
offers significant improvements compared to previous init systems (for
me the integration with cgroups is particularly appealing).

The drawback with having features first, is that arguably we're the
first into the minefield. There will always be bugs and unexpected
interactions in something as complicated as software. FWIW, systemd was
held back from being in Fedora 14 to give it more time to mature.

Another core foundation of Fedora is "Friends"

We want our community to be a pleasant place to be.

Your initial question in this thread asked "is there any clean way to
get newer intel-graphics drivers on fedora 14?"

Gene provided an answer to that question, providing a recipe that may
provide a hybrid of parts of F14 and F15. This may or may not work (I'm
wary of such hybrid approaches) - but I understood that Gene was trying
to be helpful.

This is the development mailing list for Fedora so the standard for "a
simple fix" may be different from the Fedora user mailing lists.

It may be that there's no "good" way to make this hybrid work (for some
definition of "good" e.g. "minimizing the number of steps", "being
maintainable" etc), and that the best way to make this hardware work is
to upgrade to Fedora 15. It seems that you are unhappy with that, and
your unhappiness with that seems to stem from unhappiness with systemd.

Please try to redirect that into non-emotional statements of what is
wrong with the software, in a form that can be acted on, and turned into
patches. In particular, read:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugsAndFeatureRequests
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
http://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/how-to-write-good-bug-report/

It may also help to take a break from using the computer if it is making
you unhappy.

[snip rest of mail]

I hope this is helpful

Dave

(borrowing from Smooge's sig)
"Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
battle." -- Ian MacLaren

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Old 06-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora 14 and "Sandy Bridge" graphics

Am 13.06.2011 19:33, schrieb David Malcolm:
> It appears that you are unhappy and frustrated at the moment

yes

> One of Fedora's goals is to be a fast-moving distribution: systemd
> offers significant improvements compared to previous init systems (for
> me the integration with cgroups is particularly appealing).

yes, but again: this is well for new installations but
a automatic chnge of upgraded systems is bad and if
is really bad if F14 users (6 months supported from now on)
to be forced update to F15 systemd because their graphcis driver
for F14 will not supported and Kernel 2.6.35 does also not
support the network card from "Sandy Bridge"

> It may be that there's no "good" way to make this hybrid work (for some
> definition of "good" e.g. "minimizing the number of steps", "being
> maintainable" etc)

it is not really maintainable over 6 months because every moment
upstream could change depecndencies which will not fit for F14
and you are sitting there with a kernel without security updates

additionally a GLIBGC update is inasive because it is one of the core
libraries and no F14 binary is tested/designed for this
combination

> and that the best way to make this hardware work is
> to upgrade to Fedora 15. It seems that you are unhappy with that, and
> your unhappiness with that seems to stem from unhappiness with systemd.

yes

because i have a brand new hardware (the old one was unuseable)and
"systemd" was the reason to not install F15 THIS TIME to have
a buffer playing on a test-system with F15/systemd

so now i have the options of a upgrade to F15 while much work,
hughe health troubles and 2 weeks holidays are priority one
in my life this time

the other option is that one network card will not work
and graphics performacne while moving a windows feels
like 10 years ago and sometimes the desktop freezes for
some seconds or minutes

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Old 06-13-2011, 06:57 PM
Andreas Tunek
 
Default Fedora 14 and "Sandy Bridge" graphics

> so now i have the options of a upgrade to F15 while much work,
> hughe health troubles and 2 weeks holidays are priority one
> in my life this time

Maybe if you complained less on mailing lists you would have time to
try out F15. I have problems on my hardware as well
(https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=711489), but I do not
whine about it on this mailing list. Every moment the devs spend
reading and aswering pointless rants there is less time to do actual
development and fix real bugs.

You seem to want that the Fedora devs provide newer Linux packages for
F14. I would like that to. But that takes a lot of resources that are
much better spent elsewhere, like fixing reported bugs! (Please fedora
devs, fix my bugs )

/Andreas Tunek
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