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Old 06-13-2011, 03:28 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:27:55PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 03:16:45PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Mon, 13.06.11 13:41, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:18:18PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > > What is the benefit of a separate libexecdir?
> > >
> > > I guess because binaries shouldn't go in the library directory.
> >
> > But it isn't a library directory. It's a directory for arch-depndendant
> > stuff, which includes (but is not limited to) libraries.
>
> It's a directory for arch-dependent stuff that should only exist once on
> a system, whereas lib is for arch-dependent stuff that may exist for
> multiple architectures on one system. I have no opinion on whether that
> distinction is important.
>
<nod> See the thread I linked to previously for people working out the
nuances and reasons behind that.

-Toshio
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:36 PM
Lennart Poettering
 
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On Mon, 13.06.11 14:27, Matthew Garrett (mjg59@srcf.ucam.org) wrote:

> > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:18:18PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > > What is the benefit of a separate libexecdir?
> > >
> > > I guess because binaries shouldn't go in the library directory.
> >
> > But it isn't a library directory. It's a directory for arch-depndendant
> > stuff, which includes (but is not limited to) libraries.
>
> It's a directory for arch-dependent stuff that should only exist once on
> a system, whereas lib is for arch-dependent stuff that may exist for
> multiple architectures on one system. I have no opinion on whether that
> distinction is important.

That is not really how it is. /lib is for arch-dependent stuff including
the libraries of the primary arch. Libraries for secondary archs are
then put in /usr/lib{64,arch}/.

Gentoo is the only distro which is so confused to put binaries that
belong into /usr/lib into /usr/lib64 just because they are compiled for
64bit. But that's just because they are confused.

Lennart

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Old 06-13-2011, 03:41 PM
Miloslav Trmač
 
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
<mzerqung@0pointer.de> wrote:
> On Mon, 13.06.11 14:27, Matthew Garrett (mjg59@srcf.ucam.org) wrote:
>> It's a directory for arch-dependent stuff that should only exist once on
>> a system, whereas lib is for arch-dependent stuff that may exist for
>> multiple architectures on one system. I have no opinion on whether that
>> distinction is important.
>
> That is not really how it is. /lib is for arch-dependent stuff including
> the libraries of the primary arch. Libraries for secondary archs are
> then put in /usr/lib{64,arch}/.

On x86_64 the 64-bit arch is primary and the 32-bit arch is secondary.
Surely the 32-bit files don't belong to /usr/lib64?
Mirek
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:52 PM
Simo Sorce
 
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On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 17:41 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
> <mzerqung@0pointer.de> wrote:
> > On Mon, 13.06.11 14:27, Matthew Garrett (mjg59@srcf.ucam.org) wrote:
> >> It's a directory for arch-dependent stuff that should only exist once on
> >> a system, whereas lib is for arch-dependent stuff that may exist for
> >> multiple architectures on one system. I have no opinion on whether that
> >> distinction is important.
> >
> > That is not really how it is. /lib is for arch-dependent stuff including
> > the libraries of the primary arch. Libraries for secondary archs are
> > then put in /usr/lib{64,arch}/.
>
> On x86_64 the 64-bit arch is primary and the 32-bit arch is secondary.
> Surely the 32-bit files don't belong to /usr/lib64?

I thinkLennart is saying that on a 64 bit system they would have to go
to /usr/lib32

But this is wasteful, it means that:
A) You cannot use the same packages on a 32bit system and a 64bit
system. You have to compile additional 32bit packages for installation
on 64bit systems, or do some fancy relocation within rpm.

B) you cannot easily convert a system from 32 -> 64 bit as you would
have to move everything around.

Simo.

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Old 06-13-2011, 05:25 PM
Matthew Miller
 
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 05:36:00PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> That is not really how it is. /lib is for arch-dependent stuff including
> the libraries of the primary arch. Libraries for secondary archs are
> then put in /usr/lib{64,arch}/.
>
> Gentoo is the only distro which is so confused to put binaries that
> belong into /usr/lib into /usr/lib64 just because they are compiled for
> 64bit. But that's just because they are confused.

Errr, what?

Fedora has the same "confusion".

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Old 06-13-2011, 05:44 PM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 08:43:46AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 13:41 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:18:18PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > What is the benefit of a separate libexecdir?
> >
> > I guess because binaries shouldn't go in the library directory.
> >
> > Now if you wanted to get rid of the {,/usr}/lib64 nonsense, *that*'s
> > something we can all get behind ...
>
> How would you handle multilib and how would you transition stuff ?

Shooting multilib in the head and just using 64 bit everywhere?

The only reason to have support for 32 bit is because of closed source
software, and I don't have any of that on all but two of my (dozens of)
machines.

Rich.

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Old 06-13-2011, 05:57 PM
drago01
 
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 08:43:46AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
>> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 13:41 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:18:18PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
>> > > What is the benefit of a separate libexecdir?
>> >
>> > I guess because binaries shouldn't go in the library directory.
>> >
>> > Now if you wanted to get rid of the {,/usr}/lib64 nonsense, *that*'s
>> > something we can all get behind ...
>>
>> How would you handle multilib and how would you transition stuff ?
>
> Shooting multilib in the head and just using 64 bit everywhere?

You only getting 32bit libs / apps when you install them so no reason
to get rid of them and make life harder for those who need them.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:37 PM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
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On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 07:57:46PM +0200, drago01 wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 08:43:46AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 13:41 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> >> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 02:18:18PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >> > > What is the benefit of a separate libexecdir?
> >> >
> >> > I guess because binaries shouldn't go in the library directory.
> >> >
> >> > Now if you wanted to get rid of the {,/usr}/lib64 nonsense, *that*'s
> >> > something we can all get behind ...
> >>
> >> How would you handle multilib and how would you transition stuff ?
> >
> > Shooting multilib in the head and just using 64 bit everywhere?
>
> You only getting 32bit libs / apps when you install them so no reason
> to get rid of them and make life harder for those who need them.

Obviously I was being deliberately provocative by my original
statement.

Nevertheless, multilib is a broken hack which imposes a burden on me
as a packager, even though I rarely if ever enjoy the fruits of it. I
still have to deal with multilib packaging bugs as they come up.

Rich.

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Old 06-13-2011, 08:03 PM
Alexander Boström
 
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mån 2011-06-13 klockan 11:52 -0400 skrev Simo Sorce:
> On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 17:41 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Lennart Poettering
> > <mzerqung@0pointer.de> wrote:

> > > That is not really how it is. /lib is for arch-dependent stuff including
> > > the libraries of the primary arch. Libraries for secondary archs are
> > > then put in /usr/lib{64,arch}/.
> >
> > On x86_64 the 64-bit arch is primary and the 32-bit arch is secondary.
> > Surely the 32-bit files don't belong to /usr/lib64?

Don't think of it as primary and secondary. Think of it as "the arch
that got its hands on /usr/lib first" and "the arch that had to make do
with another directory for its conflicting files".

> I thinkLennart is saying that on a 64 bit system they would have to go
> to /usr/lib32

I don't think that's what Lennart means...

The difference between libraries and binaries is that with libraries you
sometimes need both the primary and the secondary, but with binaries you
only need one, so those binaries can go in the same directory /usr/lib
regardless of their arch. (Just like there's no bin64.)

To put it another way:

Sure, /usr/libexec could be removed, but there's no need to then split
its content into /usr/lib and /usr/lib64. Only use lib64 in the cases
where there would be a conflict between the two arches.

/abo


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Old 06-13-2011, 10:26 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
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Hakel Gumar wrote:
> I spent some time yesterday talking with opensuse guys on irc, since
> /usr/libexec has not been blessed by FHS

Actually, libexec can be interpreted as being a libdir with the multilib
suffix "exec" (just like "64" is one), which is explicitly allowed by the
letter of the FHS as written (even if it might be against the spirit).

IMHO, libexec is the one correct place for this stuff.

Kevin Kofler

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