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Old 04-28-2011, 12:16 AM
Stefan Schulze Frielinghaus
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

On Mi, 2011-04-27 at 20:17 -0300, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
> why ipv6 and ipv4 have different name for the tools ?
>
> for example
>
> ping6 and ping
>
> I think it's possible writing a wrapper to detect if a ip is v4 or v6
> and execute the correct cmd,

$ ping{6} www.kame.net

If you are using a DNS name it gets ambiguous what to use in the end, IP
v4 or v6.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:59 AM
Reindl Harald
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

Am 28.04.2011 01:17, schrieb Itamar Reis Peixoto:
> why ipv6 and ipv4 have different name for the tools ?
>
> for example
>
> ping6 and ping
>
> I think it's possible writing a wrapper to detect if a ip is v4 or v6
> and execute the correct cmd,
>
> what fedora guys think about this ?

because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
and the people commonly use ping (sysadmins) must be
able to decide what they will test?

most times you ping a hostname and with the same command
you would have to use an extra parameter, not easier/clearer

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Old 04-28-2011, 01:38 AM
Chuck Anderson
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 02:59:09AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
> and the people commonly use ping (sysadmins) must be
> able to decide what they will test?

Use -4 -or -6 parameters if you care to force one vs. the other.

> most times you ping a hostname and with the same command
> you would have to use an extra parameter, not easier/clearer

I disagree. In some cases you might only care that either/or
IPv4/IPv6 works to reach a hostname. Right now, you would need to run
both commands and wrap logic around that in order to script a test for
connectivity.

Also, there is precedent to using -4 and -6 for this purpose. Do you
propose we add telnet6, ftp6, ssh6, etc commands? I think not, but if
you did care to have a special IPv6 version of a command that had a -6
option, you could always wrap command -6 in a script called command6.

Finally, at some point people will care more about IPv6 and less about
IPv4, and then the command6 versions will just be extra typing for no
good reason.

I do miss -4 and -6 options for the telnet and ftp commands though.
That would be nice to have.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:57 AM
Paul Wouters
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Chuck Anderson wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 02:59:09AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
>> and the people commonly use ping (sysadmins) must be
>> able to decide what they will test?
>
> Use -4 -or -6 parameters if you care to force one vs. the other.

+1

It's really annoying, because "ping" takes a long time to fail
when you try it on an AAAA name.

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Old 04-28-2011, 07:04 AM
Reindl Harald
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

Am 28.04.2011 03:38, schrieb Chuck Anderson:

> Do you propose we add telnet6, ftp6, ssh6, etc commands?

for ftp/ssh it is not relevant what protocol

who is using ping?
network-admins

for what is ping used?
to see if a connection works



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Old 04-28-2011, 12:09 PM
Steve Clark
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

On 04/27/2011 11:57 PM, Paul Wouters wrote:

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Chuck Anderson wrote:



On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 02:59:09AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:


because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
and the people commonly use ping (sysadmins) must be
able to decide what they will test?



Use -4 -or -6 parameters if you care to force one vs. the other.



+1

It's really annoying, because "ping" takes a long time to fail
when you try it on an AAAA name.



+1+1



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Old 04-28-2011, 12:54 PM
David Woodhouse
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 23:57 -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Chuck Anderson wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 02:59:09AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >> because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
> >> and the people commonly use ping (sysadmins) must be
> >> able to decide what they will test?
> >
> > Use -4 -or -6 parameters if you care to force one vs. the other.
>
> +1
>
> It's really annoying, because "ping" takes a long time to fail
> when you try it on an AAAA name.

Does it?

[dwmw2@macbook ~]$ time ping casper.ipv6.infradead.org
ping: unknown host casper.ipv6.infradead.org

real 0m0.080s
user 0m0.001s
sys 0m0.004s

The Solaris 'ping' works the way that Itamar suggests, FWIW. I think
it's a sane plan. Everything should just obey RFC3484 (and perhaps have
-4 and -6 overrides if you really need them for specific tests).

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:54 PM
David Woodhouse
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 23:57 -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Chuck Anderson wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 02:59:09AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> >> because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
> >> and the people commonly use ping (sysadmins) must be
> >> able to decide what they will test?
> >
> > Use -4 -or -6 parameters if you care to force one vs. the other.
>
> +1
>
> It's really annoying, because "ping" takes a long time to fail
> when you try it on an AAAA name.

Does it?

[dwmw2@macbook ~]$ time ping casper.ipv6.infradead.org
ping: unknown host casper.ipv6.infradead.org

real 0m0.080s
user 0m0.001s
sys 0m0.004s

The Solaris 'ping' works the way that Itamar suggests, FWIW. I think
it's a sane plan. Everything should just obey RFC3484 (and perhaps have
-4 and -6 overrides if you really need them for specific tests).

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Old 04-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Wes Hardaker
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 02:59:09 +0200, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> said:

RH> Am 28.04.2011 01:17, schrieb Itamar Reis Peixoto:
>> why ipv6 and ipv4 have different name for the tools ?
...
RH> because the same hostname can have A and AAA records

That argument makes sense up until the point that you realize there are
a fair number of hosts out there with multiple A records too, and ping
has to randomly choose between them.

I'm all for a single unified set of commands (-4, -6). The real
question, is what should the default be? And if 4 now, when do you
switch later? [thus, I think -both now with v6 first if a AAAA is
available otherwise v4 is probably the right answer]
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:10 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default ipv6 tools + ipv4 tools fusion.

Am 28.04.2011 15:57, schrieb Wes Hardaker:
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 02:59:09 +0200, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> said:
>
> RH> Am 28.04.2011 01:17, schrieb Itamar Reis Peixoto:
>>> why ipv6 and ipv4 have different name for the tools ?
> ...
> RH> because the same hostname can have A and AAA records
>
> That argument makes sense up until the point that you realize there are
> a fair number of hosts out there with multiple A records too, and ping
> has to randomly choose between them.

i realized this 10 years ago and it has nothig to do with the topic

> I'm all for a single unified set of commands (-4, -6). The real
> question, is what should the default be? And if 4 now, when do you
> switch later? [thus, I think -both now with v6 first if a AAAA is
> available otherwise v4 is probably the right answer]

and that is why two commands are a good solution

you can not change after 30 years way a basic-command works
like changing default to IPv6 without producing a lot
of troubles out there, make now a unifified command
with IPv4 as default and change it later to IPv6 as
default has the same effect

so who will die if there is one rpm which provides both
commands instead breaking backward compatibility

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