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Old 04-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Kevin Fenzi
Default Minutes/Summary from today's FESCo meeting (2011-03-06)

#fedora-meeting: FESCO (2011-04-06)

Meeting started by nirik at 17:30:51 UTC. The full logs are available at

Meeting summary
* init process (nirik, 17:30:56)

* #515 Investigate a "features" repo for stable releases (nirik,

* #517 Updates Metrics (nirik, 17:36:58)
* interested parties wanted to help with updates stats. (nirik,
* ACTION: nirik to mail devel list asking for interested stats folks.
(nirik, 17:40:15)

* #563 suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags
(nirik, 17:41:27)
* kylem will update ticket this week with news. (nirik, 17:43:41)

* #576 Encourage to be package maintainers to introduce themselves in
devel list (nirik, 17:43:59)
* AGREED: looks good to us for now. (nirik, 17:49:17)

* #577 FHS exception for Heimdal (nirik, 17:49:37)
* AGREED: this exception is not granted at this time. (nirik,

* #578: Guidance on systemtap 1.5 feature (nirik, 18:07:23)
* AGREED: ask feature owner to retarget for f16 (nirik, 18:13:48)

* Open Floor (nirik, 18:15:33)

Meeting ended at 18:17:47 UTC.

Action Items
* nirik to mail devel list asking for interested stats folks.

Action Items, by person
* nirik
* nirik to mail devel list asking for interested stats folks.
* (none)

People Present (lines said)
* nirik (80)
* kylem (21)
* ajax (11)
* rbergeron (10)
* zodbot (10)
* notting (10)
* cwickert (5)
* SMParrish (4)
* gholms|work (1)
* LinuxCode (1)
* mjg59 (0)
* mmaslano (0)
* mclasen (0)
17:30:51 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2011-04-06)
17:30:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 6 17:30:51 2011 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:30:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:30:52 <nirik> #meetingname fesco
17:30:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:30:54 <nirik> #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax cwickert mjg59 mmaslano
17:30:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59 mmaslano nirik notting
17:30:56 <nirik> #topic init process
17:31:10 * notting is here
17:32:36 <ajax> hellos
17:32:45 * nirik waits for a few more folks.
17:32:47 <kylem> herro.
17:33:32 <nirik> one more for quorum
17:33:55 * cwickert is here
17:34:07 <nirik> cool. I guess we can go ahead and start in...
17:34:16 <nirik> #topic #515 Investigate a "features" repo for stable releases
17:34:17 <nirik> .fesco 515
17:34:18 <zodbot> nirik: #515 (Investigate a "features" repo for stable releases) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/515
17:34:23 <nirik> cwickert: any news on this one?
17:35:53 <nirik> shall I leave it on the agenda? or move it off until there is news for it?
17:36:08 <cwickert> no news, I'm still busy with dayjob
17:36:16 <cwickert> even in this very moment
17:36:58 <nirik> #topic #517 Updates Metrics
17:36:58 <nirik> .fesco 517
17:37:00 <zodbot> nirik: #517 (Updates Metrics) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/517
17:37:04 * SMParrish here
17:38:05 <nirik> any news here?
17:38:08 <kylem> sigh, i keep getting distracted and i completely forgot about that. someone else take it over, please? :
17:38:49 <nirik> #info interested parties wanted to help with updates stats.
17:39:00 <nirik> perhaps we could send a plea to the list asking for interested folks?
17:39:43 <nirik> I could do that, unless someone wants to step up to work on this now?
17:40:15 <nirik> #action nirik to mail devel list asking for interested stats folks.
17:40:23 <nirik> I'll leave it on the agenda for now...
17:40:29 <kylem> sounds sensible. :
17:40:30 <nirik> anything more? or shall we move on?
17:40:34 <ajax> i'm not going to have time to look into it any time soon
17:41:12 <nirik> I hope we can find a few folks that are interested enough to at least complie a list of "nice to have" things.
17:41:27 <nirik> #topic #563 suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags
17:41:28 <nirik> .fesco 563
17:41:29 <zodbot> nirik: #563 (suggested policy: all daemons must set RELRO and PIE flags) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/563
17:41:33 <nirik> where are we on this one?
17:42:04 <kylem> news here -- the disk on the machine i was using inside rh (ihatethathostname) died over the weekend, so i've been re-building the chroot i was using locally, hope to be done today
17:42:38 <nirik> bummer.
17:42:54 <nirik> so, defer to next week again?
17:42:58 <kylem> please.
17:43:07 <kylem> it's been a major pain in my side since saturday. :
17:43:12 <kylem> it's what i get for trying to work on the weekend. :<
17:43:41 <nirik> #info kylem will update ticket this week with news.
17:43:46 <nirik> thanks for working on it.
17:43:54 <kylem> np. thanks for your patience. :
17:43:59 <nirik> #topic #576 Encourage to be package maintainers to introduce themselves in devel list
17:43:59 <nirik> .fesco 576
17:44:00 <zodbot> nirik: #576 (Encourage to be package maintainers to introduce themselves in devel list) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/576
17:44:14 <nirik> so, theres some statements mether added.
17:44:19 <nirik> what do we think of them?
17:45:09 <ajax> just do things already.
17:45:35 <kylem> ha.
17:45:40 <nirik> well, it's done, but he also added the second one asking sponsors to send an email when they sponsored someone.
17:45:59 <kylem> why do we care about their gpg key trust, if we don't use gpg for anything?
17:46:14 <nirik> but really I guess we could always revist if it's too much duplication.
17:46:35 <nirik> kylem: that got added as a "if you want to, you can also..." so, not a big deal.
17:46:43 <notting> i don't necessarily agree with his logic, but ... jfdi
17:47:01 <kylem> i see.
17:47:17 * nirik is ok with it the way it is, we can revisit if there's too much "hi, I just sponsored foo" followed by "hi, I'm foo and was just sponsored"
17:47:49 <notting> maybe have a suggestion that the sponsor always reply to the initial introduction mail
17:47:57 <notting> but, *shrug*
17:48:29 <nirik> yeah, I thought about suggesting that, but then it gets all complicated...
17:48:37 <nirik> so, +1 for just trying this for a while.
17:48:55 <nirik> any objections?
17:49:17 <nirik> #agreed looks good to us for now.
17:49:23 <nirik> ok, moving on...
17:49:37 <nirik> #topic #577 FHS exception for Heimdal
17:49:38 <nirik> .fesco 577
17:49:39 <zodbot> nirik: #577 (FHS exception for Heimdal) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/577
17:49:53 <nirik> this was rejected, then reopened to ask for a slightly different exception.
17:50:45 <kylem> grumbl
17:51:15 <nirik> so, I am also -1 to /usr/heimdal...
17:51:23 <nirik> and I don't think it needs to exist...
17:51:57 <notting> i'm not particularly fond of /usr/heimdal, but the binaries need to go somewhere
17:52:00 <kylem> i think the whole thing is ugly
17:52:12 <SMParrish> seems like a kluge to me
17:52:36 <nirik> a wrapper + /usr/libexec?
17:53:03 <notting> what sort of wrapper? krb5 already installs krb5.{sh,csh}
17:53:06 <nirik> or /usr/lib. I don't care.
17:53:27 <nirik> yeah, that should work
17:54:10 * nirik re-reads
17:54:56 <nirik> so, the argument is that krb5 uses /usr/kerberos/ so, heimdal should be able to as well...
17:55:14 <nirik> why not fix them both to use /usr/lib/ or /usr/libexec?
17:56:09 <nirik> I guess we just vote? or wait until requestor is around? or ask them to work on it some more?
17:56:47 <kylem> i'd much rather see the latter, /usr/{krb,heimdal} are both fugly.
17:57:47 <ajax> slight preference for libexec, but i'm rapidly losing my ability to care.
17:57:50 <notting> i'd much rather see only one kerberos implementation. but i suppose that ship has sailed.
17:58:03 <kylem> notting, or at least one interface to applications
17:58:47 <kylem> i don't really see why i could need two different kerberized rsh clients.
17:58:51 <kylem> (or rsh period.
17:59:11 * nirik tries to think of a ticket joke, but fails.
17:59:58 <notting> kylem: kadmin is the obvious one that needs to exist for both. dunno about the others
18:00:12 <kylem> sure.
18:02:41 <nirik> well, I guess I would say I am -1 to the exception at this time.
18:02:48 <nirik> if folks prefer we could just defer another week.
18:03:33 <cwickert> re
18:03:40 * cwickert is also -1
18:04:11 <notting> i am -1, and would prefer that we only ship one versions of applications wherever possible (and if heimdal's always going to be a secondary library, it's not those)
18:04:31 <SMParrish> -1 from me
18:05:00 <nirik> thats -4
18:05:17 <ajax> so i'm sure: what's the exception being requested?
18:05:35 <nirik> that they be allowed to put binaries in /usr/heimdal/
18:06:18 <ajax> nggh. krb5 should be fixed too in that case, but given that, -1 as well.
18:06:47 <nirik> at least thats my understanding.
18:06:55 <nirik> yeah, krb5 needs fixing too.
18:07:08 <nirik> #agreed this exception is not granted at this time.
18:07:20 <nirik> ok, here's a late add:
18:07:23 <nirik> #topic #578: Guidance on systemtap 1.5 feature
18:07:23 <nirik> .fesco 578
18:07:24 <zodbot> nirik: #578 (Guidance on systemtap 1.5 feature) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/578
18:07:28 <nirik> rbergeron: ping
18:07:51 <rbergeron> nirik: YO
18:07:55 <rbergeron> Oh, hai guys.
18:08:33 <rbergeron> So the ticket pretty much has all information. Basically, they thought they'd get there in time for beta, but can't, but think they could do it in a few more days, but I don't want to give bad advice on things I shouldn't be advising on, really.
18:09:02 <rbergeron> Would prefer for fesco to actually make the call on if it should be dropped altogether, or if you need moreinfo, or if any of the possibilities frank listed are viable.
18:09:02 * nirik looks to see whats in now
18:09:44 <ajax> hm. stap's kind of a leaf, it's not likely to disrupt anything if the release comes in late. but, kind of bad form at this point in the release.
18:10:02 <nirik> yeah, it should have landed in a testable form before now.
18:10:21 <rbergeron> yup.
18:10:30 <ajax> i lean towards dropping it as a "feature", but landing it in f15 updates should be fine.
18:10:35 <nirik> I'd suggest they retarget for f16 at this point.
18:10:49 <kylem> indeed.
18:11:31 * rbergeron looks for an 'official' recommendation so she doesn't have to try and decipher everyone's statements
18:11:36 <SMParrish> I am leaning towards pushing it into F16. give them time to work out the kinks and get some thorough testing done
18:12:25 <nirik> so, that sounds like +4 for 'retarget for f16' ?
18:12:51 <ajax> yeah
18:12:53 <notting> sure, i'll add +1 to that
18:12:56 <ajax> at least from me
18:13:48 <nirik> #agreed ask feature owner to retarget for f16
18:14:03 <nirik> note that we may/should have to ping docs and marketing about it no longer being a feature.
18:14:19 <nirik> for f15 I mean
18:14:21 <LinuxCode> rbergeron, official enough ? ;-D
18:14:58 <rbergeron> nirik: indeed.
18:15:08 * rbergeron can follow up with docs/mktg.
18:15:16 <nirik> rbergeron: that would be excellent.
18:15:16 <rbergeron> linuxcode: yes
18:15:20 <nirik> anything more on this ?
18:15:28 <rbergeron> thanks, everyone.
18:15:33 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
18:15:40 <nirik> Anyone have anything for open floor?
18:16:34 * nirik listens to the wonderfull crickets chirp
18:16:44 <ajax> not i
18:16:48 <kylem>
18:16:48 <nirik> ok, shall we close out and call it a quick meeting for once?
18:16:53 <kylem> o/
18:16:56 <gholms|work> Heh
18:17:42 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone!
18:17:47 <nirik> #endmeeting
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