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Old 12-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On 12/16/2010 03:18 PM, seth vidal wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:34 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 08:59:19PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
>>> I think I'll change the f15 deadline to very-far-in-the-future, and then
>>> when I invent some spare time, work on some of the other ideas for automatic
>>> determination of the time. That's better than not having the package
>>> completely zapped.
>
> I have released ownership
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/system-autodeath
>
>
> go claim it and enjoy

Just a thought: How about equipping a repo's metadata with some sort of
"expiration"/"best before" date, which yum etc. could use to warn users?
If we had something like this, system-auto-death etc. would become
superfluous.

Ralf

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Old 12-16-2010, 04:26 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:13 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 12/16/2010 03:18 PM, seth vidal wrote:
> > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:34 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 08:59:19PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> >>> I think I'll change the f15 deadline to very-far-in-the-future, and then
> >>> when I invent some spare time, work on some of the other ideas for automatic
> >>> determination of the time. That's better than not having the package
> >>> completely zapped.
> >
> > I have released ownership
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/system-autodeath
> >
> >
> > go claim it and enjoy
>
> Just a thought: How about equipping a repo's metadata with some sort of
> "expiration"/"best before" date, which yum etc. could use to warn users?
> If we had something like this, system-auto-death etc. would become
> superfluous.
>

it would mean we'd have to be able/willing to push new metadata out to
the base repo so that the repo could be used at all for future installs.

-sv


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Old 12-16-2010, 04:33 PM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On 12/16/2010 06:26 PM, seth vidal wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:13 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> On 12/16/2010 03:18 PM, seth vidal wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:34 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 08:59:19PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
>>>>> I think I'll change the f15 deadline to very-far-in-the-future, and then
>>>>> when I invent some spare time, work on some of the other ideas for automatic
>>>>> determination of the time. That's better than not having the package
>>>>> completely zapped.
>>>
>>> I have released ownership
>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/system-autodeath
>>>
>>>
>>> go claim it and enjoy
>>
>> Just a thought: How about equipping a repo's metadata with some sort of
>> "expiration"/"best before" date, which yum etc. could use to warn users?
>> If we had something like this, system-auto-death etc. would become
>> superfluous.
>>
>
> it would mean we'd have to be able/willing to push new metadata out to
> the base repo so that the repo could be used at all for future installs.
Not necessarily - Yum could simply issue a warning and continue to
work, yum could have a --disable-expiration-warnings option, ...

There are many possibilities
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:43 PM
Matt McCutchen
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:33 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 12/16/2010 06:26 PM, seth vidal wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:13 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> >> Just a thought: How about equipping a repo's metadata with some sort of
> >> "expiration"/"best before" date, which yum etc. could use to warn users?
> >> If we had something like this, system-auto-death etc. would become
> >> superfluous.
> >>
> >
> > it would mean we'd have to be able/willing to push new metadata out to
> > the base repo so that the repo could be used at all for future installs.
> Not necessarily - Yum could simply issue a warning and continue to
> work, yum could have a --disable-expiration-warnings option, ...
>
> There are many possibilities

Rather than push the issue onto the user, I think the right solution
would be for the "fedora" repo definition to have an option
"updated_by=updates" that causes yum not to check its expiration when
the "updates" repo is also enabled.

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Old 12-16-2010, 04:54 PM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On 12/16/2010 06:43 PM, Matt McCutchen wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:33 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> On 12/16/2010 06:26 PM, seth vidal wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:13 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>>>> Just a thought: How about equipping a repo's metadata with some sort of
>>>> "expiration"/"best before" date, which yum etc. could use to warn users?
>>>> If we had something like this, system-auto-death etc. would become
>>>> superfluous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> it would mean we'd have to be able/willing to push new metadata out to
>>> the base repo so that the repo could be used at all for future installs.
>> Not necessarily - Yum could simply issue a warning and continue to
>> work, yum could have a --disable-expiration-warnings option, ...
>>
>> There are many possibilities
>
> Rather than push the issue onto the user,
I don't think this is "pushing the issue onto the user". I'd consider
this to be warning them about "you might be doing something unwise".

> I think the right solution
> would be for the "fedora" repo definition to have an option
> "updated_by=updates" that causes yum not to check its expiration when
> the "updates" repo is also enabled.
Yes, this would also be an alternative, except that one also would have
to take users into account who run "plain DVD Fedora w/o updates" and
use-cases which run entirely off-line.

Ralf

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Old 12-16-2010, 05:08 PM
Matt McCutchen
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:54 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 12/16/2010 06:43 PM, Matt McCutchen wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:33 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> >> On 12/16/2010 06:26 PM, seth vidal wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 18:13 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> >>>> Just a thought: How about equipping a repo's metadata with some sort of
> >>>> "expiration"/"best before" date, which yum etc. could use to warn users?
> >>>> If we had something like this, system-auto-death etc. would become
> >>>> superfluous.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> it would mean we'd have to be able/willing to push new metadata out to
> >>> the base repo so that the repo could be used at all for future installs.
> >> Not necessarily - Yum could simply issue a warning and continue to
> >> work, yum could have a --disable-expiration-warnings option, ...
> >>
> >> There are many possibilities
> >
> > Rather than push the issue onto the user,
> I don't think this is "pushing the issue onto the user". I'd consider
> this to be warning them about "you might be doing something unwise".
>
> > I think the right solution
> > would be for the "fedora" repo definition to have an option
> > "updated_by=updates" that causes yum not to check its expiration when
> > the "updates" repo is also enabled.
> Yes, this would also be an alternative, except that one also would have
> to take users into account who run "plain DVD Fedora w/o updates" and
> use-cases which run entirely off-line.

I was referring to the issue Seth raised where using the "fedora" repo
would produce an expiration warning that is bogus (i.e., the user is not
at risk) provided that the "updates" repo is also enabled. That can and
should be solved on our end.

Showing the warning to users who don't use the updates repo is correct
behavior, though we could separately have an option for the user to hide
the warning if they already know about it and find it annoying.

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Old 12-16-2010, 07:32 PM
Matt Domsch
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 09:24:40AM -0500, seth vidal wrote:
> After this bug:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=663340
>
> I realize I'm not remembering to update the EOL date often enough.
>
> So, I'm orphaning system-auto-death. If no one steps up to take care of
> it I'm going to issue an update which disables the cron job.

I mentioned this in the bug, but preupgrade needs to know about the
EOL date of a release too. Hence:

http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/releases.txt

includes an eol-date entry:

[Fedora 12 (Constantine)]
stable=True
preupgrade-ok=True
version=12
mirrorlist=http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=fedora-12&arch=$basearch
installmirrorlist=http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?path=pub/fedora/linux/releases/12/Fedora/$basearch/os
eol-date=20101202


This is kept updated (mostly by me), it lives in the fedora-web git
tree in infrastructure.

Thanks,
Matt

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Old 12-16-2010, 07:37 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Orphaning system-auto-death

On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 14:32 -0600, Matt Domsch wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 09:24:40AM -0500, seth vidal wrote:
> > After this bug:
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=663340
> >
> > I realize I'm not remembering to update the EOL date often enough.
> >
> > So, I'm orphaning system-auto-death. If no one steps up to take care of
> > it I'm going to issue an update which disables the cron job.
>
> I mentioned this in the bug, but preupgrade needs to know about the
> EOL date of a release too. Hence:
>
> http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/releases.txt
>
> includes an eol-date entry:
>
> [Fedora 12 (Constantine)]
> stable=True
> preupgrade-ok=True
> version=12
> mirrorlist=http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=fedora-12&arch=$basearch
> installmirrorlist=http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?path=pub/fedora/linux/releases/12/Fedora/$basearch/os
> eol-date=20101202
>
>
> This is kept updated (mostly by me), it lives in the fedora-web git
> tree in infrastructure.
>

An excellent item for the fabulous new maintainer, Matt Miller, to take
up!

-sv


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