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Old 11-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

Greetings.

Fedora 14 was a pretty relaxing and stable release. I'm thinking that
Fedora 15 may be much more exciting.

Things I know of so far:

* systemd
* gnome3 / gnome-shell default
* removing a bunch of suid stuff in favor of capabilities
* xfce 4.8 (with any luck).

Things that are out there, but no idea if anyone is working on them or
if they might be ready by f15:

* grub2 (no one is driving for this that I know of, but has some
advantages over our grub1 if someone is willing to run with it, although
it may be a lot of work to get it to where we need it).

* btrfs (Is this ready to be default? If so, would that warrant a
change in our lvm by default setup?

* Can we finally remove hal? (xfce4.8 shouldn't need it anymore with
any luck).

* Will NM finally be able to do bridging?

* Some kind of packaged wayland to play with, even if it doesn't do
much?

Any other exciting work in progress that might land in F15 that people
are actively working on?

kevin
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:46 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

> * btrfs (Is this ready to be default? If so, would that warrant a
> change in our lvm by default setup?

I don't think we are quite ready for this yet. I do have "btrfs
strategy" on my todo list, though. I'm hoping we can start talking at
FUDCon about what we want btrfs to do for us, possibly taking the place
of LVM.

- Chris
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Ric Wheeler
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

On 11/12/2010 11:46 AM, Chris Lumens wrote:
>> * btrfs (Is this ready to be default? If so, would that warrant a
>> change in our lvm by default setup?
> I don't think we are quite ready for this yet. I do have "btrfs
> strategy" on my todo list, though. I'm hoping we can start talking at
> FUDCon about what we want btrfs to do for us, possibly taking the place
> of LVM.
>
> - Chris

We have been spending a lot of time and thought trying to scheme about how to
accelerate btrfs. At this point, it is actually fairly stable but still missing
key things (most notably a fsck that can fix the file system!).

Last week at plumbers, we did get a large chunk of the btrfs developers together
for a few hours and have been working to make sure that we have sufficient
people working to get this done...

Ric

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Old 11-12-2010, 04:03 PM
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

> We have been spending a lot of time and thought trying to scheme
> about how to accelerate btrfs. At this point, it is actually fairly
> stable but still missing key things (most notably a fsck that can
> fix the file system!).
>
> Last week at plumbers, we did get a large chunk of the btrfs
> developers together for a few hours and have been working to make
> sure that we have sufficient people working to get this done...

This is good information, and makes me feel even better about removing
the need for a btrfs command line option.

What I mean about "we're not quite there yet" is that I don't really
want to change over to it as the default in anaconda until we (1) have a
release or two with it as a non-hidden option to get some feedback, and
(2) know what our strategy with it in a greater sense is. If it's going
to allow us to do all sorts of crazy new things, I'd like to enable the
crazy new things at the same time as we switch it in as the default.

- Chris
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:09 PM
Josef Bacik
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:03 PM, <clumens@redhat.com> wrote:
>> We have been spending a lot of time and thought trying to scheme
>> about how to accelerate btrfs. At this point, it is actually fairly
>> stable but still missing key things (most notably a fsck that can
>> fix the file system!).
>>
>> Last week at plumbers, we did get a large chunk of the btrfs
>> developers together for a few hours and have been working to make
>> sure that we have sufficient people working to get this done...
>
> This is good information, and makes me feel even better about removing
> the need for a btrfs command line option.
>
> What I mean about "we're not quite there yet" is that I don't really
> want to change over to it as the default in anaconda until we (1) have a
> release or two with it as a non-hidden option to get some feedback, and
> (2) know what our strategy with it in a greater sense is. *If it's going
> to allow us to do all sorts of crazy new things, I'd like to enable the
> crazy new things at the same time as we switch it in as the default.
>

Agreed, my plan was to take away the option for F15 (I sent the
anaconda patch already right?) and leave it as an optional thing for
at least 2 releases until we even begin to discuss setting it as
default.

Another criteria I have for making it default is I want grub support,
specifically grub2. So until grub2 is in Fedora and we have btrfs
patches upstream in grub2 I have no intention of making it the default
in Fedora. Thanks,

Josef
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:16 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 09:35:54 -0700,
Kevin Fenzi <kevin@scrye.com> wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> Fedora 14 was a pretty relaxing and stable release. I'm thinking that

Maybe for some people. Having spin stuff break before the alpha and final
releases, was neither dull nor relaxing. The beta was OK for me, but dealing
with the systemd change probably wasn't dull nor relaxing for the people
that had to deal with that.

> Any other exciting work in progress that might land in F15 that people
> are actively working on?

If Phillip gets a chance to work on LZMA Squashfs for 2.6.38, it will probably
make it in as a feature (more stuff being crammed in on a live CD / DVD).

Brian Lane is being pretty active with livecd-tools, so maybe some other
goodness will happen there.
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:23 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

> Agreed, my plan was to take away the option for F15 (I sent the
> anaconda patch already right?) and leave it as an optional thing for
> at least 2 releases until we even begin to discuss setting it as
> default.

Yep, it's been in for quite a while now:

commit 8f4340dc86f515cd2f6571c06b790ab420f719b2
Author: Chris Lumens <clumens@redhat.com>
Date: Fri Sep 24 15:52:18 2010 -0400

btrfs will be a supported filesystem in F15 (josef).

Overall, this sounds like a fine plan to me.

- Chris
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:26 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

On 11/12/2010 05:03 PM, clumens@redhat.com wrote:
>> We have been spending a lot of time and thought trying to scheme
>> about how to accelerate btrfs. At this point, it is actually fairly
>> stable but still missing key things (most notably a fsck that can
>> fix the file system!).
>>
>> Last week at plumbers, we did get a large chunk of the btrfs
>> developers together for a few hours and have been working to make
>> sure that we have sufficient people working to get this done...
> This is good information, and makes me feel even better about removing
> the need for a btrfs command line option.
>
> What I mean about "we're not quite there yet" is that I don't really
> want to change over to it as the default in anaconda until we (1) have a
> release or two with it as a non-hidden option to get some feedback, and
> (2) know what our strategy with it in a greater sense is. If it's going
> to allow us to do all sorts of crazy new things, I'd like to enable the
> crazy new things at the same time as we switch it in as the default.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Remove the need for the command line option for F15+

Gather feedback for F15 and F16

Consider switching the default to BTRFS in F17.

*DE could consider switching the default to use EXT4 directly without
LVM. [1]

I would think that users would love to experience the work that Theodore
Tso has been doing [2] and what better way is it for them to do other
then experiencing it first hand in F15 when it goes out the door..

JBG

1. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NoDefaultLVM
2. http://free.linux.hp.com/~enw/ext4/2.6.36-rc6/

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Old 11-12-2010, 06:04 PM
Paul Wouters
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

> * grub2 (no one is driving for this that I know of, but has some
> advantages over our grub1 if someone is willing to run with it, although
> it may be a lot of work to get it to where we need it).

I understood grub2 is much worse for serial console support. But that info might
be outdated by now. A good clean way of "boot once, fallback to failure on 2nd boot"
woudl be nice. With grub that is tricky because of redhat patches to it.

> * Will NM finally be able to do bridging?

I'd like to see L2TP/IPsec integration with NM. I know there is some work going on
there (and I need to do some of it myself as upstream)

Paul
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:07 PM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

----- "Kevin Fenzi" <kevin@scrye.com> wrote:

> Greetings.
>
> Fedora 14 was a pretty relaxing and stable release. I'm thinking that
> Fedora 15 may be much more exciting.
>
> Things I know of so far:
>
> * systemd
> * gnome3 / gnome-shell default
> * removing a bunch of suid stuff in favor of capabilities
> * xfce 4.8 (with any luck).
>
> Things that are out there, but no idea if anyone is working on them
> or
> if they might be ready by f15:
>
> * grub2 (no one is driving for this that I know of, but has some
> advantages over our grub1 if someone is willing to run with it,
> although
> it may be a lot of work to get it to where we need it).
>
> * btrfs (Is this ready to be default? If so, would that warrant a
> change in our lvm by default setup?
>
> * Can we finally remove hal? (xfce4.8 shouldn't need it anymore with
> any luck).

Lukas Tinkl (ltinkl) is finishing his KDE HALsectomy. It's not easy -
without nasty hacks (and copying code from HAL as some other DEs does ;-).

> * Will NM finally be able to do bridging?
>
> * Some kind of packaged wayland to play with, even if it doesn't do
> much?

Wayland seems like long distant future but I'm looking forward to see it -
together with Plasma Desktop ported on top of Qt Scene Graph, wow - heaven
is melting ;-)

> Any other exciting work in progress that might land in F15 that
> people
> are actively working on?

As usual - we hope for a lot of KDE Plasma Desktop features ;-)

> kevin

Jaroslav

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