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Old 11-09-2010, 01:06 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 19:51 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

> If the policy can't be clear that _reasonable_ justification is prerequisite
> to duping an older bug to a newer, and some semblance of enforcement applied,
> then I don't need to file any more bugs, or test any further. I don't see why
> many others would either, or why triagers would waste their time.

So, again: Lubomir fixed the bug. The bug is fixed. That gets him a lot
of leeway in my world. One person fixing the bug is a lot more use than
500 people reporting it and going 'what is the status of this bug?!'

I don't see why this is a huge deal. There's a bug in Bugzilla that it
doesn't merge CC lists when you dupe bugs, yeah. Aside from that? What's
the huge problem with duping an older bug to a newer one?
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:30 AM
Felix Miata
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On 2010/11/08 18:06 (GMT-0800) Adam Williamson composed:

> I don't see why this is a huge deal. There's a bug in Bugzilla that it
> doesn't merge CC lists when you dupe bugs, yeah. Aside from that? What's
> the huge problem with duping an older bug to a newer one?

Like I said, let the people who actually fix bugs both find them and file
them. There's no point in anyone else bothering. Triagers won't be necessary,
saving everyone time, cluttering the tracker with fewer dupes. And, they'll
always look, according to buglists, as if they were fixed more quickly than
they really were. Everybody wins, except those who can't fix bugs but would
like to feel their testing and reporting serves a purpose.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:37 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 21:30 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2010/11/08 18:06 (GMT-0800) Adam Williamson composed:
>
> > I don't see why this is a huge deal. There's a bug in Bugzilla that it
> > doesn't merge CC lists when you dupe bugs, yeah. Aside from that? What's
> > the huge problem with duping an older bug to a newer one?
>
> Like I said, let the people who actually fix bugs both find them and file
> them. There's no point in anyone else bothering. Triagers won't be necessary,
> saving everyone time, cluttering the tracker with fewer dupes. And, they'll
> always look, according to buglists, as if they were fixed more quickly than
> they really were. Everybody wins, except those who can't fix bugs but would
> like to feel their testing and reporting serves a purpose.

That's just a rant that doesn't answer my question at all.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:14 AM
Ankur Sinha
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

Hello,

On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 21:30 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> Like I said, let the people who actually fix bugs both find them and
> file
> them.

You need to rethink this. Maintainers(ones who actually fix the bugs)
already have enough work on their hands. Adding "look, manage multiple
copies of the same error and comment them all" will just add to their
workload. Triagers are there for a reason. Bug triaging is there for a
reason. The current work flow is good. The only thing that happened
incorrectly here was that bugzilla did not add CCs to the bug. There's a
bug filed for this, as Peter already mentioned.

A bug that has more comments from reporters will not have more priority
than one that has more comments from the maintainer. Maintainers need
one bug report per issue. Multiple bug reports are no extra help. As
long as even one bug report with good info exists, and the maintainer is
aware of it, I see no problem anywhere.

--
Thanks!
Regards,
Ankur

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

"FranciscoD"

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Old 11-09-2010, 05:39 AM
David Tardon
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 09:30:54PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2010/11/08 18:06 (GMT-0800) Adam Williamson composed:
>
> > I don't see why this is a huge deal. There's a bug in Bugzilla that it
> > doesn't merge CC lists when you dupe bugs, yeah. Aside from that? What's
> > the huge problem with duping an older bug to a newer one?
>
> Like I said, let the people who actually fix bugs both find them and file
> them. There's no point in anyone else bothering. Triagers won't be necessary,
> saving everyone time, cluttering the tracker with fewer dupes. And, they'll
> always look, according to buglists, as if they were fixed more quickly than
> they really were. Everybody wins, except those who can't fix bugs but would
> like to feel their testing and reporting serves a purpose.
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>
> Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

Btw, maybe you should look at the proverb in your signature and try to
apply it to yourself. Because in this thread you have neither shown
understanding nor used pleasant words.

D.
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:48 AM
Felix Miata
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On 2010/11/09 07:39 (GMT+0100) David Tardon composed:

> Btw, maybe you should look at the proverb in your signature and try to
> apply it to yourself. Because in this thread you have neither shown
> understanding nor used pleasant words.

The words I used are not inherently unpleasant, only unpleasant because
people don't want to hear the truth they report. Testers who can't fix bugs
are treated like lepers compared to those who provide patches, deserving of
less than equal respect. As a Bugzilla user for a decade or so, I understand
this very well. It's a constant battle to remember to spend enough time
rereading before sending in order to prevent inappropriate language to
escape, particularly as given so little respect in the whole test and bug
process overall (e.g. not only the duping of good older bugs to newer bugs,
but Bugzilla itself: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=638726 ).

As the subject says, I see no point in further bother.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/rudeweb.html
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:45 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On Tue, 2010-11-09 at 02:48 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2010/11/09 07:39 (GMT+0100) David Tardon composed:
>
> > Btw, maybe you should look at the proverb in your signature and try to
> > apply it to yourself. Because in this thread you have neither shown
> > understanding nor used pleasant words.
>
> The words I used are not inherently unpleasant, only unpleasant because
> people don't want to hear the truth they report. Testers who can't fix bugs
> are treated like lepers compared to those who provide patches, deserving of
> less than equal respect. As a Bugzilla user for a decade or so, I understand
> this very well. It's a constant battle to remember to spend enough time
> rereading before sending in order to prevent inappropriate language to
> escape, particularly as given so little respect in the whole test and bug
> process overall (e.g. not only the duping of good older bugs to newer bugs,
> but Bugzilla itself: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=638726 ).

...another thread in which you bang on about rudeness from others but
can't seem to recognize it in yourself. Note how the first comment on
that bug is me agreeing with you about that specific problem. Where you
get into trouble is where you start making grand declarations about how
the entire websites team should be run. This isn't the Godfather, and
you're not Marlon Brando. Exactly as Karsten said in that bug, inflating
a single bug into a grand theory of everything is counter-productive,
and your implicit suggestion that they don't know what the hell they're
doing was deeply insulting to those who work on the websites team.

The problem with this thread is that you still haven't explained one
fundamental thing which you keep taking for granted and assume everyone
agrees with you about: you think an older bug being marked as a
duplicate of a newer bug is a huge problem. What I'm trying to explain
is that not everyone *does* agree with you about this; I for one don't
see what the big deal is. There isn't a prize system for bug reports.
No-one's keeping track of who files bugs and who 'won' in terms of
reporting the bug first. You don't lose any points if your report gets
closed as a dupe of someone else's. There just isn't a 'respect' issue
here, as far as I can see, which you seem to assume is the case. When
there are duplicate reports and someone cleans them up and fixes the
bug, that's a *good* thing. I can see an argument here for keeping the
older bug open as a bug against xorg, as the fix to pyxf86config kinda
works around an underlying bug in xorg which hasn't gone away (someone's
explained this in the bug thread) - but that's just a plain technical
discussion. I really don't see why it ought to make anyone get hot under
the collar.

So, once more for the cheap seats: *why* do you think closing an older
bug as a dupe of a newer one is a respect issue? What's the big problem
with it?

> As the subject says, I see no point in further bother.
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>
> Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/rudeweb.html

--
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IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:16 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On Tue, 2010-11-09 at 08:45 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:

> So, once more for the cheap seats: *why* do you think closing an older
> bug as a dupe of a newer one is a respect issue? What's the big problem
> with it?

As a devel - I've found that I close bugs as dupes of other bugs and I
try to have the bug which has the most succinct explanation of the
problem and the solution as the one that everything is duped TO.

That way when I look at open bugs I get the best one, not the others.

the order they came in doesn't matter, imo.

-sv


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Old 11-09-2010, 04:46 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

On Tue, 2010-11-09 at 12:16 -0500, seth vidal wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-11-09 at 08:45 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> > So, once more for the cheap seats: *why* do you think closing an older
> > bug as a dupe of a newer one is a respect issue? What's the big problem
> > with it?
>
> As a devel - I've found that I close bugs as dupes of other bugs and I
> try to have the bug which has the most succinct explanation of the
> problem and the solution as the one that everything is duped TO.
>
> That way when I look at open bugs I get the best one, not the others.
>
> the order they came in doesn't matter, imo.

right, that seems to be the approach Lubomir took.

I don't see a problem with that approach, to be frank, I can't see any
intrinsic reason why we should prescribe always making the oldest report
the 'original'; it does seem to make more sense to make the most useful
report the 'original'.

Only point to note is that it would definitely be a good thing to fix
Bugzilla to merge the CC lists, I'll file a bug on that. =)
--
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:49 PM
Michael Cronenworth
 
Default Why should I ever bother filing another bug?

Adam Williamson wrote:
> Only point to note is that it would definitely be a good thing to fix
> Bugzilla to merge the CC lists, I'll file a bug on that. =)

Filed 9 years ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108983

Or 1 year ago: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=523634
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