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Old 10-11-2010, 10:41 AM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

I installed and played with Ubuntu 10.10 over the weekend (in a VM),
and I have to say that their installer is very smooth indeed. It's
starting to make anaconda look distinctly clunky.

Some of the things it does which are IMHO better:

- starts disk formatting / copying / installing in parallel
with asking user questions

- downloads updates in parallel too

- uses IP geolocation to guess the user's timezone and keyboard
settings (it's been 100% correct for me each time)

- suggests a username and hostname based on the user's real name
(Mac OS X's installer also does this -- it's a nice touch)

This is in contrast to anaconda (certainly from the live CD install)
which seems to be a usability no-go area.

Thoughts? Can we switch to their installer?

Rich.

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Old 10-11-2010, 01:51 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> I installed and played with Ubuntu 10.10 over the weekend (in a VM),
> and I have to say that their installer is very smooth indeed. *It's
> starting to make anaconda look distinctly clunky.
>
> Some of the things it does which are IMHO better:
>
> *- starts disk formatting / copying / installing in parallel
> * with asking user questions
>
> *- downloads updates in parallel too
>
> *- uses IP geolocation to guess the user's timezone and keyboard
> * settings (it's been 100% correct for me each time)
>
> *- suggests a username and hostname based on the user's real name
> * (Mac OS X's installer also does this -- it's a nice touch)
>
> This is in contrast to anaconda (certainly from the live CD install)
> which seems to be a usability no-go area.
>
> Thoughts? *Can we switch to their installer?

I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
project.

josh
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:21 PM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> project.

Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

Rich.

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Old 10-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Mike McGrath
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> > I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> > illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> > overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> > project.
>
> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.
>

I think our pride problem will pretty much ensure that won't happen.
Afterall, we're the innovators, not them. So if they did it, it's not
innovation.

-Mike
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:33 PM
Peter Lemenkov
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

2010/10/11 Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com>:

> I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> illustrate the benefits. *That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> project.

Useless waste of time. Just grab Ubuntu iso and see a stunning gap in
both technology and usability between anaconda and their own
installed.

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Old 10-11-2010, 02:37 PM
Peter Jones
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On 10/11/2010 10:21 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
>> I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
>> illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
>> overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
>> project.
>
> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

Do you seriously believe that we don't look at other OS installers,
including Ubuntu's, for ideas?

That's quite the naļvette you've cultivated there.

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Old 10-11-2010, 02:38 PM
Adam Jackson
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On Mon, 2010-10-11 at 15:21 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> > I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> > illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> > overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> > project.
>
> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

We do.

Porting Fedora to the Ubuntu installer would be rather more work than
just adding those features to anaconda. You might get a more favorable
reaction by phrasing your RFEs positively ("this is a neat thing that
these guys are doing, we should look into it") rather than negatively
("we should throw away what we're currently using and switch").

- ajax
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Matthew Garrett
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 03:21:40PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

Maybe the virt-manager developers could spend some more time looking at
vmware? This isn't a good way to have a worthwhile discussion. A
description of the factors that you feel make Ubiquity better than
Anaconda would be a much better way to handle this.

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Old 10-11-2010, 02:48 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

> Useless waste of time. Just grab Ubuntu iso and see a stunning gap in
> both technology and usability between anaconda and their own
> installed.

Does the Ubuntu installer support installing to iscsi? Multipath?
CCISS? Fully automated installation? Install over VNC? Installation
from NFS, ISO on NFS, ISO on HD? Live images on USB keys? Driver
disks?

Do you have any idea how much crap anaconda really does?

- Chris
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:54 PM
Adam Miller
 
Default Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Chris Lumens wrote:
> > Useless waste of time. Just grab Ubuntu iso and see a stunning gap in
> > both technology and usability between anaconda and their own
> > installed.
>
> Does the Ubuntu installer support installing to iscsi? Multipath?
> CCISS? Fully automated installation? Install over VNC? Installation
> from NFS, ISO on NFS, ISO on HD? Live images on USB keys? Driver
> disks?
>
> Do you have any idea how much crap anaconda really does?
<SNIP>

A big epic +1

-AdamM
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