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"Richard W.M. Jones" 10-11-2010 10:41 AM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
I installed and played with Ubuntu 10.10 over the weekend (in a VM),
and I have to say that their installer is very smooth indeed. It's
starting to make anaconda look distinctly clunky.

Some of the things it does which are IMHO better:

- starts disk formatting / copying / installing in parallel
with asking user questions

- downloads updates in parallel too

- uses IP geolocation to guess the user's timezone and keyboard
settings (it's been 100% correct for me each time)

- suggests a username and hostname based on the user's real name
(Mac OS X's installer also does this -- it's a nice touch)

This is in contrast to anaconda (certainly from the live CD install)
which seems to be a usability no-go area.

Thoughts? Can we switch to their installer?

Rich.

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Josh Boyer 10-11-2010 01:51 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 6:41 AM, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> I installed and played with Ubuntu 10.10 over the weekend (in a VM),
> and I have to say that their installer is very smooth indeed. *It's
> starting to make anaconda look distinctly clunky.
>
> Some of the things it does which are IMHO better:
>
> *- starts disk formatting / copying / installing in parallel
> * with asking user questions
>
> *- downloads updates in parallel too
>
> *- uses IP geolocation to guess the user's timezone and keyboard
> * settings (it's been 100% correct for me each time)
>
> *- suggests a username and hostname based on the user's real name
> * (Mac OS X's installer also does this -- it's a nice touch)
>
> This is in contrast to anaconda (certainly from the live CD install)
> which seems to be a usability no-go area.
>
> Thoughts? *Can we switch to their installer?

I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
project.

josh
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"Richard W.M. Jones" 10-11-2010 02:21 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> project.

Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

Rich.

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Mike McGrath 10-11-2010 02:28 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> > I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> > illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> > overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> > project.
>
> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.
>

I think our pride problem will pretty much ensure that won't happen.
Afterall, we're the innovators, not them. So if they did it, it's not
innovation. :(

-Mike
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Peter Lemenkov 10-11-2010 02:33 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
2010/10/11 Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com>:

> I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> illustrate the benefits. *That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> project.

Useless waste of time. Just grab Ubuntu iso and see a stunning gap in
both technology and usability between anaconda and their own
installed.

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Peter Jones 10-11-2010 02:37 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On 10/11/2010 10:21 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
>> I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
>> illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
>> overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
>> project.
>
> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

Do you seriously believe that we don't look at other OS installers,
including Ubuntu's, for ideas?

That's quite the na´vette you've cultivated there.

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Adam Jackson 10-11-2010 02:38 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On Mon, 2010-10-11 at 15:21 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:51:41AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> > I would like to see you create a Fedora Remix spin with this change to
> > illustrate the benefits. That way we can evaluate feasibility and
> > overall value add before we dive head first into it across the whole
> > project.
>
> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

We do.

Porting Fedora to the Ubuntu installer would be rather more work than
just adding those features to anaconda. You might get a more favorable
reaction by phrasing your RFEs positively ("this is a neat thing that
these guys are doing, we should look into it") rather than negatively
("we should throw away what we're currently using and switch").

- ajax
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Matthew Garrett 10-11-2010 02:44 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 03:21:40PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

> Proving what? You can just imagine what a rebranded Ubuntu installer
> that installed Fedora would look like. My point anyway is that we
> could look at Ubuntu for ideas, because the first point of contact
> with users is now very smooth and (maybe) first impressions matter.

Maybe the virt-manager developers could spend some more time looking at
vmware? This isn't a good way to have a worthwhile discussion. A
description of the factors that you feel make Ubiquity better than
Anaconda would be a much better way to handle this.

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Chris Lumens 10-11-2010 02:48 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
> Useless waste of time. Just grab Ubuntu iso and see a stunning gap in
> both technology and usability between anaconda and their own
> installed.

Does the Ubuntu installer support installing to iscsi? Multipath?
CCISS? Fully automated installation? Install over VNC? Installation
from NFS, ISO on NFS, ISO on HD? Live images on USB keys? Driver
disks?

Do you have any idea how much crap anaconda really does?

- Chris
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Adam Miller 10-11-2010 02:54 PM

Ubuntu 10.10's installer looks rather nice
 
On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:48:44AM -0400, Chris Lumens wrote:
> > Useless waste of time. Just grab Ubuntu iso and see a stunning gap in
> > both technology and usability between anaconda and their own
> > installed.
>
> Does the Ubuntu installer support installing to iscsi? Multipath?
> CCISS? Fully automated installation? Install over VNC? Installation
> from NFS, ISO on NFS, ISO on HD? Live images on USB keys? Driver
> disks?
>
> Do you have any idea how much crap anaconda really does?
<SNIP>

A big epic +1

-AdamM
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