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Old 10-04-2010, 10:49 AM
Jan Kaluza
 
Default Fedora and webserver dependency

Hi,

there are over 100 packages which "Require: httpd" and it looks they are
preconfigured only for httpd. However, Fedora contains more webservers than
apache (httpd) and it's currently impossible (as far as I know) to install for
example php (phpMyAdmin, wordpress, ...) if you want to use lighttpd instead
of httpd, because "yum install php" installs also httpd. You then have to
disable httpd by "chkconfig httpd off", but there's no way to have PHP installed
without httpd.

I think one solution is to use "webserver" virtual package instead of
"Require: httpd". Of course it's OK to use "Require: httpd" in packages which
really needs httpd and can't work with another webserver, but otherwise I
think "webserver" virtual package should be used.

Another problem is that each webserver in Fedora uses different username/group.
If you have application which stores some private data which should be
accessible for that application and for webserver, but not for another users,
you have to use something like "chown your_app_username:webserver_group
private_directory". This is not doable when webserver group is different for
each webserver, so you have to support *just* one webserver in .spec file or
loose the security. Can't we use single username/group for all webserver?

Regards,
Jan Kaluza
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:29 PM
"Pavel Alexeev (aka Pahan-Hubbitus)"
 
Default Fedora and webserver dependency

04.10.2010 14:49, Jan Kaluza wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there are over 100 packages which "Require: httpd" and it looks they are
> preconfigured only for httpd. However, Fedora contains more webservers than
> apache (httpd) and it's currently impossible (as far as I know) to install for
> example php (phpMyAdmin, wordpress, ...) if you want to use lighttpd instead
> of httpd, because "yum install php" installs also httpd. You then have to
> disable httpd by "chkconfig httpd off", but there's no way to have PHP installed
> without httpd.
>
> I think one solution is to use "webserver" virtual package instead of
> "Require: httpd". Of course it's OK to use "Require: httpd" in packages which
> really needs httpd and can't work with another webserver, but otherwise I
> think "webserver" virtual package should be used.
>
It was discussed not so long in past.
I agree absolutely.
But there also present small problem - many packages includes Apache
virtual hosts configuration, .htaccess settings and some similar stuff
targeted only for Apache. In most cases it is not so hard to implement
similar settings for example for Ngnix and Lighthttpd... But, do we have
rights require such implementation for all present webservers from
package maintainer? In any case it additional work and requires
additional skills. What if new webserver will appear in repos?
> Another problem is that each webserver in Fedora uses different username/group.
> If you have application which stores some private data which should be
> accessible for that application and for webserver, but not for another users,
> you have to use something like "chown your_app_username:webserver_group
> private_directory". This is not doable when webserver group is different for
> each webserver, so you have to support *just* one webserver in .spec file or
> loose the security. Can't we use single username/group for all webserver?
>
> Regards,
> Jan Kaluza

--
With best wishes, Pavel Alexeev aka Pahan-Hubbitus. For fast contact
with me you could use Jabber: Hubbitus@jabber.ru
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:55 PM
Radek Vokál
 
Default Fedora and webserver dependency

Dne 4.10.2010 18:29, Pavel Alexeev (aka Pahan-Hubbitus) napsal(a):
> 04.10.2010 14:49, Jan Kaluza wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> there are over 100 packages which "Require: httpd" and it looks they are
>> preconfigured only for httpd. However, Fedora contains more webservers than
>> apache (httpd) and it's currently impossible (as far as I know) to install for
>> example php (phpMyAdmin, wordpress, ...) if you want to use lighttpd instead
>> of httpd, because "yum install php" installs also httpd. You then have to
>> disable httpd by "chkconfig httpd off", but there's no way to have PHP installed
>> without httpd.
>>
>> I think one solution is to use "webserver" virtual package instead of
>> "Require: httpd". Of course it's OK to use "Require: httpd" in packages which
>> really needs httpd and can't work with another webserver, but otherwise I
>> think "webserver" virtual package should be used.
>>
> It was discussed not so long in past.
> I agree absolutely.
> But there also present small problem - many packages includes Apache
> virtual hosts configuration, .htaccess settings and some similar stuff
> targeted only for Apache. In most cases it is not so hard to implement
> similar settings for example for Ngnix and Lighthttpd... But, do we have
> rights require such implementation for all present webservers from
> package maintainer? In any case it additional work and requires
> additional skills. What if new webserver will appear in repos?

I'd say that httpd specific files should go to subpackages like
php-httpd. It's an overhead but as you say, what if a new webserver hits
the repos.

Radek

>> Another problem is that each webserver in Fedora uses different username/group.
>> If you have application which stores some private data which should be
>> accessible for that application and for webserver, but not for another users,
>> you have to use something like "chown your_app_username:webserver_group
>> private_directory". This is not doable when webserver group is different for
>> each webserver, so you have to support *just* one webserver in .spec file or
>> loose the security. Can't we use single username/group for all webserver?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jan Kaluza
>


--
Radek Vokál <rvokal@redhat.com>
Engineering Manager - Base Operating Systems Brno

Office: +420 532 294 111
Mobile: +420 608 437 507
Red Hat Inc. http://cz.redhat.com
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:40 AM
Jan Kaluza
 
Default Fedora and webserver dependency

On Monday, October 04, 2010 10:55:28 pm Radek Vokál wrote:
> Dne 4.10.2010 18:29, Pavel Alexeev (aka Pahan-Hubbitus) napsal(a):
> > 04.10.2010 14:49, Jan Kaluza wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> there are over 100 packages which "Require: httpd" and it looks they are
> >> preconfigured only for httpd. However, Fedora contains more webservers
> >> than apache (httpd) and it's currently impossible (as far as I know) to
> >> install for example php (phpMyAdmin, wordpress, ...) if you want to use
> >> lighttpd instead of httpd, because "yum install php" installs also
> >> httpd. You then have to disable httpd by "chkconfig httpd off", but
> >> there's no way to have PHP installed without httpd.
> >>
> >> I think one solution is to use "webserver" virtual package instead of
> >> "Require: httpd". Of course it's OK to use "Require: httpd" in packages
> >> which really needs httpd and can't work with another webserver, but
> >> otherwise I think "webserver" virtual package should be used.
> >
> > It was discussed not so long in past.
> > I agree absolutely.
> > But there also present small problem - many packages includes Apache
> > virtual hosts configuration, .htaccess settings and some similar stuff
> > targeted only for Apache. In most cases it is not so hard to implement
> > similar settings for example for Ngnix and Lighthttpd... But, do we have
> > rights require such implementation for all present webservers from
> > package maintainer? In any case it additional work and requires
> > additional skills. What if new webserver will appear in repos?
>
> I'd say that httpd specific files should go to subpackages like
> php-httpd. It's an overhead but as you say, what if a new webserver hits
> the repos.

Well, if you check .spec files of packages which "Require: webserver", you'll
find out that they are actually preconfigured for httpd, but doesn't force you
to install it (That's not really true, because usually they depend on "php"
which forces you to install httpd).

I think this could be the way. We can somewhere declare that all packages are
preconfigured for httpd, and if you want to use another server, you have to
configure it by yourself. This will make almost no change for current users,
but it would allow to not install httpd if you don't want it.

> Radek
>
> >> Another problem is that each webserver in Fedora uses different
> >> username/group. If you have application which stores some private data
> >> which should be accessible for that application and for webserver, but
> >> not for another users, you have to use something like "chown
> >> your_app_username:webserver_group private_directory". This is not
> >> doable when webserver group is different for each webserver, so you
> >> have to support *just* one webserver in .spec file or loose the
> >> security. Can't we use single username/group for all webserver?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jan Kaluza

Regards,
Jan Kaluza
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