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Old 10-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Pasi Kärkkäinen
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

Hello,

I just tried Fedora 14 Beta LIVE CD and noticed things are still problematic
on my setup:

- Laptop with radeon graphics
- Attached to a docking station with external (DVI) monitor.

The lid of the laptop is closed when the laptop is in the docking station,
so only the external monitor is in use.
Internal LVDS display should not be used at all in this case.

Now what happens when Fedora 14 Beta boots up:

- I can see the BIOS, grub and kernel booting up on the external monitor.
- when GDM starts the external monitor goes blank/black !!
- If I open the (closed) laptop LID I can see the internal LVDS display
is enabled and GDM login prompt is there !!

I was tracking this down, and it happens probably because the internal LVDS
is always reported as 'connected' by the radeon driver, so it gets enabled
even when the laptop lid is closed. The radeon/drm driver maintainer (Alex Deucher)
confirmed this is not a bug, that's how it's designed to be, and the "policy"
of enabling/disabling outputs is left to userspace!

So, some component in userspace should check the ACPI lid state and based
on that enable/disable the internal LVDS.

On my laptop ACPI lid state works just fine:
$ cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state
state: open

or closed, depending if the lid is actually open or closed.

So the question is which userspace component should be taking care of
disabling the internal LVDS when the laptop lid is closed?

- plymouth
- GDM
- Xorg
- gnome-power-manager
- something else?

Please let us know what you think of this.. This behaviour is very problematic
for laptop users who use docking stations, so it would be very nice to get
this resolved.. There are many bug reports about this problem on Fedora bugzilla
for various Fedora versions.


Some bugzilla entries about/related to this problem:

"internal LCD under the closed lid used as primary display":
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=595644

"KMS forcing LVDS laptop display active with lid closed":
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539180

"External monitor output is switched off when closing the laptop lid":
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589736

"Gnome power manager suspends system when notebook in docking station is closed."
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598540

"maybe we shouldn't suspend on lid close if using external inputs and outputs":
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=546497


Thank you!

-- Pasi

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Old 10-04-2010, 04:48 PM
Orion Poplawski
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

I've been trying unsuccessfully for a long to time to try to get this
discussion started. Perhaps this just isn't right place? If not, where?

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Old 10-05-2010, 04:30 AM
Orion Poplawski
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 10/4/2010 4:40 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 10:48 -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote:
>> I've been trying unsuccessfully for a long to time to try to get this
>> discussion started. Perhaps this just isn't right place? If not, where?
> It's as good a place as any. The X and desktop developers are the people
> who can actually fix it, though, if you can't provide patches.
The big question still seems to be who needs to be responsible for
deciding what video outputs are active by default in a system.
Previously this appears to have been the responsibility of the various X
drivers who appear to have gotten out of that business because it is a
hard problem and probably because much of that has moved to the kernel
with KMS. But nothing has come in to replace it (that I am aware of),
and so various bugs are being filed against various components (kernel,
X, kdm/gdm). Hopefully it could be done in a central enough way to
avoid every desktop environment having to implement it individually
(which was a problem faced by the various X drivers I imagine).

So, where does this need to happen? The kernel is the most central and
now holds KMS stuff, but perhaps not a kind home to this kind of hacky
stuff. plymouth is at least DE agnostic, but still distribution
specific. Udev rule? Are we really stuck with gdm/kdm/lxdm/...dm
implementing it?

- Orion
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:35 AM
Richard Hughes
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 5 October 2010 05:30, Orion Poplawski <orion@cora.nwra.com> wrote:
> Are we really stuck with gdm/kdm/lxdm/...dm
> implementing it?

No, I think what we need to do is to teach GPM how to turn off the
internal panel when docked and with the lid closed. The only missing
piece is for the kernel to export some kind of sysfs boolean saying
"in-dock". From talks with mjg59, detecting a dock is pretty hard.

Richard.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:55 AM
FlorianFesti
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 10/05/2010 10:35 AM, Richard Hughes wrote:
> No, I think what we need to do is to teach GPM how to turn off the
> internal panel when docked and with the lid closed. The only missing
> piece is for the kernel to export some kind of sysfs boolean saying
> "in-dock". From talks with mjg59, detecting a dock is pretty hard.
Sorry for my may be naive question: Why do we need to know if we are
docked or not. Isn't there exactly the same situation if the external
Monitor is directly connected to the laptop? If there is an external
monitor and the lid is closed don't we want to switch off the display
regardless whether there is a docking station involved or not?

Florian
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:22 AM
Richard Hughes
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 5 October 2010 09:55, FlorianFesti <ffesti@redhat.com> wrote:
> Sorry for my may be naive question: Why do we need to know if we are
> docked or not. Isn't there exactly the same situation if the external
> Monitor is directly connected to the laptop? If there is an external
> monitor and the lid is closed don't we want to switch off the display
> regardless whether there is a docking station involved or not?

Well, I guess some people would want the laptop to suspend, but it's a
very good question. Now all it needs is someone willing and able to
write a little patch for me :-)

Richard.
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:00 AM
Peter Robinson
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5 October 2010 09:55, FlorianFesti <ffesti@redhat.com> wrote:
>> Sorry for my may be naive question: Why do we need to know if we are
>> docked or not. Isn't there exactly the same situation if the external
>> Monitor is directly connected to the laptop? If there is an external
>> monitor and the lid is closed don't we want to switch off the display
>> regardless whether there is a docking station involved or not?
>
> Well, I guess some people would want the laptop to suspend, but it's a
> very good question. Now all it needs is someone willing and able to
> write a little patch for me :-)

For the Dell docking stations at least there is a power button on the
dock and the general way they are used (in that this is the way it
works with Windows) is that if the power button on the dock is used
and the lid is closed (power button is above the keyboard) it uses the
external monitor. I've no idea if its possible to differentiate which
botton is used. This is the case in our off with Dell D series and E
series Latitude and HP dock capable laptops.

Peter
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:02 PM
"Dariusz J. Garbowski"
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 05/10/10 05:00 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5 October 2010 09:55, FlorianFesti <ffesti@redhat.com> wrote:
>>> Sorry for my may be naive question: Why do we need to know if we are
>>> docked or not. Isn't there exactly the same situation if the external
>>> Monitor is directly connected to the laptop? If there is an external
>>> monitor and the lid is closed don't we want to switch off the display
>>> regardless whether there is a docking station involved or not?
>> Well, I guess some people would want the laptop to suspend, but it's a
>> very good question. Now all it needs is someone willing and able to
>> write a little patch for me :-)
>
> For the Dell docking stations at least there is a power button on the
> dock and the general way they are used (in that this is the way it
> works with Windows) is that if the power button on the dock is used
> and the lid is closed (power button is above the keyboard) it uses the
> external monitor. I've no idea if its possible to differentiate which
> botton is used. This is the case in our off with Dell D series and E
> series Latitude and HP dock capable laptops.

There's also the case used quite often in my company with Dell docking stations, where
the lid is open and the user uses both external and internal display in multi-monitor setup.
Another case, used more often, is two external monitors connected to the dock and closed lid
in multi-monitor setup.

Regards,
Dariusz

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Old 10-05-2010, 01:09 PM
Nathaniel McCallum
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 10/05/2010 09:02 AM, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
> On 05/10/10 05:00 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5 October 2010 09:55, FlorianFesti <ffesti@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>> Sorry for my may be naive question: Why do we need to know if we are
>>>> docked or not. Isn't there exactly the same situation if the external
>>>> Monitor is directly connected to the laptop? If there is an external
>>>> monitor and the lid is closed don't we want to switch off the display
>>>> regardless whether there is a docking station involved or not?
>>> Well, I guess some people would want the laptop to suspend, but it's a
>>> very good question. Now all it needs is someone willing and able to
>>> write a little patch for me :-)
>>
>> For the Dell docking stations at least there is a power button on the
>> dock and the general way they are used (in that this is the way it
>> works with Windows) is that if the power button on the dock is used
>> and the lid is closed (power button is above the keyboard) it uses the
>> external monitor. I've no idea if its possible to differentiate which
>> botton is used. This is the case in our off with Dell D series and E
>> series Latitude and HP dock capable laptops.
>
> There's also the case used quite often in my company with Dell docking stations, where
> the lid is open and the user uses both external and internal display in multi-monitor setup.
> Another case, used more often, is two external monitors connected to the dock and closed lid
> in multi-monitor setup.

The good news is that I'm pretty sure the "dock" is irrelevant (other
than "are we on battery power") in all those cases. The only thing that
matters is which outputs are connected and what happens when the lid is
closed. This seems like a cut-and-dry GPM policy issue.

Nathaniel
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:12 PM
"Dariusz J. Garbowski"
 
Default Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor

On 05/10/10 07:09 AM, Nathaniel McCallum wrote:
> On 10/05/2010 09:02 AM, Dariusz J. Garbowski wrote:
>> On 05/10/10 05:00 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5 October 2010 09:55, FlorianFesti <ffesti@redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sorry for my may be naive question: Why do we need to know if we are
>>>>> docked or not. Isn't there exactly the same situation if the external
>>>>> Monitor is directly connected to the laptop? If there is an external
>>>>> monitor and the lid is closed don't we want to switch off the display
>>>>> regardless whether there is a docking station involved or not?
>>>> Well, I guess some people would want the laptop to suspend, but it's a
>>>> very good question. Now all it needs is someone willing and able to
>>>> write a little patch for me :-)
>>> For the Dell docking stations at least there is a power button on the
>>> dock and the general way they are used (in that this is the way it
>>> works with Windows) is that if the power button on the dock is used
>>> and the lid is closed (power button is above the keyboard) it uses the
>>> external monitor. I've no idea if its possible to differentiate which
>>> botton is used. This is the case in our off with Dell D series and E
>>> series Latitude and HP dock capable laptops.
>> There's also the case used quite often in my company with Dell docking stations, where
>> the lid is open and the user uses both external and internal display in multi-monitor setup.
>> Another case, used more often, is two external monitors connected to the dock and closed lid
>> in multi-monitor setup.
>
> The good news is that I'm pretty sure the "dock" is irrelevant (other
> than "are we on battery power") in all those cases. The only thing that
> matters is which outputs are connected and what happens when the lid is
> closed. This seems like a cut-and-dry GPM policy issue.

What about the case where "we are on battery power" and a projector or external monitor connected
to the VGA port, no dock (with lid either open or closed for single or multi-monitor setup)?

Dariusz
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