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Old 01-15-2008, 12:39 PM
Karsten Hopp
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

Hello,

Till proposed in bugzilla #311061 to use alternatives in vim-enhanced and vim-X11 so that
both of them can provide /usr/bin/vim. His reasoning as that when gvim gets started as vim
(via a symlink) it opens the text mode vim with the additional benefit of xterm clipboard support.

I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would be to add a conflict between
vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems without X11/gtk. On all other
systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as vim-enhanced.

Karsten

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Old 01-15-2008, 12:39 PM
Karsten Hopp
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

Hello,

Till proposed in bugzilla #311061 to use alternatives in vim-enhanced and vim-X11 so that
both of them can provide /usr/bin/vim. His reasoning as that when gvim gets started as vim
(via a symlink) it opens the text mode vim with the additional benefit of xterm clipboard support.

I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would be to add a conflict between
vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems without X11/gtk. On all other
systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as vim-enhanced.

Karsten

--
Karsten Hopp | Mail: karsten@redhat.de
Red Hat Deutschland | Tel: +49-711-96437-0
Hauptstaetterstr.58 | Fax: +49-711-613590
D-70178 Stuttgart | http://www.redhat.de

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Old 01-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Till Maas
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

On Tue January 15 2008, Karsten Hopp wrote:

> I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would be
> to add a conflict between vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of
> use on systems without X11/gtk. On all other systems vim-X11 can provide
> the same (and more) functionality as vim-enhanced.

Ah, the only possible problem I can think of would be that an "update" from
vim-enhanced to vim-X11 may not be possible. It should be possbile to do

# yum install vim-enhanced
# yum install vim-X11

and then vim-enhanced would be removed and vim-X11 installed. I do not know,
whether this works with only Conflicts: or if e.g. a Obsoletes: or something
else then needs to be added to vim-X11.

Regards,
Till
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:57 PM
Till Maas
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

On Tue January 15 2008, Till Maas wrote:
> On Tue January 15 2008, Karsten Hopp wrote:
> > I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would
> > be to add a conflict between vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is
> > only of use on systems without X11/gtk. On all other systems vim-X11 can
> > provide the same (and more) functionality as vim-enhanced.
>
> Ah, the only possible problem I can think of would be that an "update" from
> vim-enhanced to vim-X11 may not be possible. It should be possbile to do

Using alternatives would make it easier for users in another case, too. When
someone wants to remove X11 from a default Fedora install ans still keep his
favourite editor. Then one could install both vim-X11 and vim-enhanced and
after removing X11, vim-enhanced would be still there.

Regards,
Till
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

Karsten Hopp wrote:

Hello,

Till proposed in bugzilla #311061 to use alternatives in vim-enhanced
and vim-X11 so that
both of them can provide /usr/bin/vim. His reasoning as that when gvim
gets started as vim
(via a symlink) it opens the text mode vim with the additional benefit
of xterm clipboard support.



How does this differ from using gvim -v?

I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would
be to add a conflict between
vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems without
X11/gtk. On all other
systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as
vim-enhanced.


alternatives is not a good solution for end-user apps on a multi-user
system because the admin is setting a preference that is really better
left to the user to decide. The user can set this preference using an
alias (alias vim='gvim -v').


Conflicts precludes the ability to have both versions installed in case
one user of the system wants one thing and a different user wants
another. Additionally, we are trying to get rid of unnecessary
Conflicts... this seems to qualify as unnecessary for me as there's a
valid method of creating the package at the moment which does not
require Conflicts.


What are you trying to achieve? Perhaps it would be simpler to get rid
of the vim-enhanced package? Or perhaps what we have now is the
simplest solution.


-Toshio

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Old 01-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

Karsten Hopp wrote:

Hello,

Till proposed in bugzilla #311061 to use alternatives in vim-enhanced
and vim-X11 so that
both of them can provide /usr/bin/vim. His reasoning as that when gvim
gets started as vim
(via a symlink) it opens the text mode vim with the additional
benefit of xterm clipboard support.


This can be turned on in vim-enhanced just by adding a few flags to the
spec. It seems not to cause any trouble without an X server too. I've
done it on RHEL.
I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution
would be to add a conflict between
vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems
without X11/gtk. On all other
systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as
vim-enhanced.


Karsten

--
Karsten Hopp | Mail: karsten@redhat.de
Red Hat Deutschland | Tel: +49-711-96437-0
Hauptstaetterstr.58 | Fax: +49-711-613590
D-70178 Stuttgart | http://www.redhat.de



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Old 01-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

Karsten Hopp wrote:

Hello,

Till proposed in bugzilla #311061 to use alternatives in vim-enhanced
and vim-X11 so that
both of them can provide /usr/bin/vim. His reasoning as that when gvim
gets started as vim
(via a symlink) it opens the text mode vim with the additional
benefit of xterm clipboard support.


This can be turned on in vim-enhanced just by adding a few flags to the
spec. It seems not to cause any trouble without an X server too. I've
done it on RHEL.
I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution
would be to add a conflict between
vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems
without X11/gtk. On all other
systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as
vim-enhanced.


Karsten

--
Karsten Hopp | Mail: karsten@redhat.de
Red Hat Deutschland | Tel: +49-711-96437-0
Hauptstaetterstr.58 | Fax: +49-711-613590
D-70178 Stuttgart | http://www.redhat.de



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Old 01-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 02:39:47PM +0100, Karsten Hopp wrote:
> I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would be
> to add a conflict between
> vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems without
> X11/gtk. On all other
> systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as
> vim-enhanced.

I would strongly disagree that vim-enhanced is only of use on systems
without X11/gtk.

vim is far more pratical on an terminal emulator than gvim, even on a
system with X11/gtk.

Rui

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Or not.
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+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?

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Old 01-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 02:39:47PM +0100, Karsten Hopp wrote:
> I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would be
> to add a conflict between
> vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems without
> X11/gtk. On all other
> systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as
> vim-enhanced.

I would strongly disagree that vim-enhanced is only of use on systems
without X11/gtk.

vim is far more pratical on an terminal emulator than gvim, even on a
system with X11/gtk.

Rui

--
Or not.
Today is Setting Orange, the 15th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3174
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?

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Old 01-15-2008, 02:39 PM
Till Maas
 
Default Should vim-X11 conflict with vim-enhanced ?

On Tue January 15 2008, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> Karsten Hopp wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Till proposed in bugzilla #311061 to use alternatives in vim-enhanced
> > and vim-X11 so that
> > both of them can provide /usr/bin/vim. His reasoning as that when gvim
> > gets started as vim
> > (via a symlink) it opens the text mode vim with the additional benefit
> > of xterm clipboard support.
>
> How does this differ from using gvim -v?

It is more complicated that to run "vim". Running "vim" will always open an
editor, even when gvim is not installed. I guess the reasons are the same why
someone uses "gvim" instead of "vim -g".

> > I agree with the /usr/bin/vim stuff, but I think a better solution would
> > be to add a conflict between
> > vim-X11 and vim-enhanced. vim-enhanced is only of use on systems without
> > X11/gtk. On all other
> > systems vim-X11 can provide the same (and more) functionality as
> > vim-enhanced.
>
> alternatives is not a good solution for end-user apps on a multi-user
> system because the admin is setting a preference that is really better
> left to the user to decide. The user can set this preference using an
> alias (alias vim='gvim -v').

> Conflicts precludes the ability to have both versions installed in case
> one user of the system wants one thing and a different user wants
> another. Additionally, we are trying to get rid of unnecessary


Why should one want to use vim without X support, when vim with X support is
installed? The only difference afaik is that it loads maybe some 1/100 of a
second faster. Another issue is that maybe someone wants that vim-X11 is
substituted by vim-enhanced when vim-X11 is removed because e.g. X11 is
removed. But this does not mean that both binaries need to be installed all
the time to make the user happy.

> What are you trying to achieve? Perhaps it would be simpler to get rid
> of the vim-enhanced package? Or perhaps what we have now is the
> simplest solution.

For a user it is a very annoying situation. When one installs vim-X11, the
binary /usr/bin/gvim) cannot be run with all possible names, e.g. vim,
vimdiff, view, ... And running it with, e.g. "gvim -v -d" instead
of "vimdiff" is also annoying.

Regards,
Till
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