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Old 04-28-2010, 12:22 PM
Richard Zidlicky
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 07:39:37AM +0100, mike cloaked wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:43 AM, Mail Lists <lists@sapience.com> wrote:
> > On 04/27/2010 05:58 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >
> >
> > *The OP had an issue w. thunderbird - which many find to be a pretty
> > decent mail client.
> >
> > *This thread has morphed ...
> >
> > *As for Firefox, I'd actually prefer to put fedora effort behind
> > chromium - google-chrome is an order of magnitude better than firefox -
> > if chromium can be made comparable we don't need to fuss about firefox -
> > lets fuss about chromium/google-chrome instead :-)
> >
>
> One more point which may not be directly on thread but which IS
> important - many people use their browser for online banking and a
> good number of banks will not allow login from any browser not on
> their "approved" list.

thats why many popular browsers still use spoofed user-agent ids by
default.

If the banks do adhere to standards there is no use for checking user-agent.

Richard
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:18 PM
Matthew Garrett
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 02:22:48PM +0200, Richard Zidlicky wrote:

> If the banks do adhere to standards there is no use for checking user-agent.

It'd be a lot easier if we shipped software for an ideal world rather
than the real one, yes.

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Old 04-29-2010, 06:24 AM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

mike cloaked wrote:
> One more point which may not be directly on thread but which IS
> important - many people use their browser for online banking and a
> good number of banks will not allow login from any browser not on
> their "approved" list. At present if you are running Firefox then
> most banks will allow login - if you switch to another less well
> recognised browser then users may find their bank will then not permit
> online access (possibly even if you switch user agent string!). For
> example in general chrome is working pretty well (yes it is not FOSS)
> - but my bank will not permit login using chrome in linux (though it
> will from Windows! This is because it won't allow a beta as it is not
> released code!). A "released" chromium may get allowed for such use
> but this is uncertain at present.
>
> I think you need to be careful with such issues - and also ensure that
> security is looked after vigorously for similar reasons. Switching
> away from Firefox to Iceweasel or Coldcoyote or whatever may not play
> nice with important sites such as banks!

If we have it send Firefox's UA (or add an option to do it), which has been
proven in court not to be trademark infringement, and also have it return
"Firefox" for JS queries for the browser name, which is not trademark
infringement for the same reason (it's required for interoperability), they
have no way to tell the difference. (After all the code is the same except
for the name and for distro integration patches they have no way to detect.)

Kevin Kofler

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Old 04-30-2010, 03:46 AM
Matt McCutchen
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 10:58 -0700, Christopher Aillon wrote:
> I really think that as a project, we'd be doing a lot better if we
> mandated upstream review before applying patches to any package if you
> aren't an upstream maintainer of the code. As it is now, it's somewhat
> scary to think how many packagers would take a bugfix patch and apply it
> without being able to figure out if there's a potential hidden exploit
> in it...

Review, perhaps, but not approval. Fedora and upstream are independent
organizations each pursing their own goals. Trademarks aside, Fedora
shouldn't be bound by upstream decisions any more than upstream is bound
by our packaging guidelines or obliged to accept patches to comply with
them. For comparison, disapproval from upstream libpng sure didn't stop
Mozilla from patching libpng with APNG support.

And the relevant qualification for a reviewer is knowledge of the code,
not affiliation with upstream.

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Old 04-30-2010, 09:15 PM
Matt McCutchen
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 07:57 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> But of course the underlying true issue is that Mozilla is refusing to
> guarantee backwards compatibility for the interfaces pretty much all
> existing apps used and in several cases still use, instead trying to force
> everyone to port to their new public API. I can't judge whether the original
> interfaces were so poorly designed they really can't be kept compatible
> (which reflects poorly on Mozilla) or whether they're just adding a useless
> wrapper because they refuse to stay compatible (which reflects even more
> poorly on them).

With the caveat that I'm not really familiar with the situation, I think
that assessment is unfair. If Mozilla feels the private interfaces are
suboptimal and wants to adjust the design before committing to long-term
stability, I think that's a reasonable decision. Let he who gets
everything right the first time throw the first stone.

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