FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 04-25-2010, 04:19 PM
Tom Lane
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

Bruno Wolff III <bruno@wolff.to> writes:
> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 12:03:28 -0400,
> Tom Lane <tgl@redhat.com> wrote:
>> Wouldn't it be sensible to approach the Mozilla folk about getting them
>> to relax their requirements so that sane packaging is possible? ISTM
>> that this must be a problem for other distros too.

> I though we did that several years ago. I wasn't a packager at that time,
> so I didn't follow what was happening closely.

Well, if we say to them "either you fix this licensing problem or your
trademarks will disappear from Fedora", it might get their attention.
Especially if we can get Debian and some other distros to tell them the
same.

regards, tom lane
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-25-2010, 04:36 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 18:33:27 +0200,
Thomas Janssen <thomasj@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> Whoops, sorry for the PM Bruno and Kevin, i did just click on reply to
> all. Forgot to check for a cc.

If I didn't want PM copies, I'd set mail-followup-to to not get them.
I sometimes find it useful to get the extra copy.

Also the default for the Fedora lists seems to be to try to detect duplicates
and not send a copy through the list to them. (I have turned that off, so
I get both copies.)

And to keep things a bit on topic I added a question about Mozilla trademarks
to the election questions. I will be interested in seeing what FESCO and
Board candidates have to say on this issue.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-25-2010, 09:49 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> We could even try coordinating names with Debian to reduce confusion.

Yes, definitely. We should ask Debian about using the ice* names they're
using, and also share patches with them.

Kevin Kofler

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-25-2010, 09:55 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

Tom Lane wrote:
> Wouldn't it be sensible to approach the Mozilla folk about getting them
> to relax their requirements so that sane packaging is possible? ISTM
> that this must be a problem for other distros too.

We have tried, Debian has tried, other distros have tried, Mozilla just said
"no". The problem is that, unlike most other upstreams, Mozilla does not see
even a coalition of all GNU/Linux distros as an almighty power you have to
give its way, but only as a secondary platform next to Window$ from whose
users they get millions of downloads. So they feel they're in the position
of power and get to dictate to us what we have to do.

They also care very little about the needs of distros and it took years for
some of the system libs to get used rather than bundled, for things like
system icons getting adopted etc. They still suck in the system integration
domain in many ways, e.g. openSUSE's KDE integration patches have yet to be
merged, and of course our maintainers refuse to merge openSUSE's patches due
to the usual trademark concerns (which openSUSE doesn't seem to be concerned
about, they just ship those patches in branded packages, so either Mozilla
approved them, which means we can ship them too, or they just didn't care,
so why should we?).

Kevin Kofler

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-26-2010, 09:17 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On 04/26/2010 02:39 PM, mike cloaked wrote:
>
> May I ask whether anyone has the same crash occurring with Thunderbird
> 3.1b2? I have been running the nightlies for that version for months
> without any problem - is the crash only occurring with version 3.0.x?
> Rather than planning on breaking away from Mozilla perhaps when TB
> releases 3.1 the issue will become a non-issue?
>
> Just a thought!
>

I see the crash issue as a symptom of a large issue of whether we are
comfortable with the trademark boundaries of Mozilla. Besides the beta
of 3.1 might have other regressions and not very suitable as an update
to Fedora 12. If Mozilla does a release quickly for 3.0.x, then it
would solve the current issue but I think it still leaves downstream in
a rather unpleasant situation in general where we are entirely dependant
on getting permission from Mozilla for even minor patches. Mozilla
certainly are well within their legal rights to dictate how their brand
should be used by downstream distributions but whether it is the right
balance is questionable.

Rahul

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-26-2010, 02:23 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On 04/26/2010 07:44 PM, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
>
> It's not up to maintainer to decide whether to provide non-free
> package in Fedora. And I don't see why we need to ask FESCo for
> resolution of this (clearly visible for almost everyone) violation of
> our guidelines.
>

Mozilla has some restrictive trademark guidelines but it nevertheless
Free software w.rt to copyright licensing (triple licensing with GPL,
LGPL and MPL) and is fully compliant with Fedora licensing guidelines.
It does violate Fedora packaging guidelines but FESCo is authorized to
give exceptions and decide on policy matters and I have filed it at

https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/369

Rahul
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-27-2010, 09:47 PM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

Peter Lemenkov wrote:
> Rebranding can be a difficult task, but this task also can be easily
> measured in man-hours, man-days or man-months, and this would be a
> ultimate solution, while chatting with lawers can consume much more
> time w/o success (nothing personal here).

And the rebranding work has already been done by Debian. We should ask them
whether they're OK with us using the "iceweasel" name even if we apply
different patches than they do. If they're OK with that, we could just use
their patch as is, if not, we'd pick another name, but their patch would
still point us to the exact places to change.

Kevin Kofler

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-28-2010, 01:55 AM
Ryan Rix
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Sun 25 April 2010 2:55:58 pm Kevin Kofler wrote:
> They still suck in the system integration
> domain in many ways, e.g. openSUSE's KDE integration patches have yet to
> be merged, and of course our maintainers refuse to merge openSUSE's
> patches due to the usual trademark concerns

In their defense, those patches are fairly messy.

--
Ryan Rix
== http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://rix.si/ ==
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-28-2010, 04:56 AM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

I wrote:
> Yes, definitely. We should ask Debian about using the ice* names they're
> using, and also share patches with them.

An alternative would be using GNU IceCat:
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/
but they don't have a rebranded Thunderbird.

Kevin Kofler

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 04-28-2010, 11:41 AM
Richard Zidlicky
 
Default Thunderbird bz 579023 still not fixed even though there is an upstream fix available

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 04:59:55PM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 17:55:39 -0400,
> Matt McCutchen <matt@mattmccutchen.net> wrote:
> >
> > Epiphany is a non-starter. In the default configuration, it doesn't
> > validate SSL certificates at all (bug 569577). An unbranded Mozilla
> > browser would be a much better choice.
>
> The way Firefox does it, is more to help companies sell certificates than to
> actually help security.

agreed.

I did recently look into the list of CAs trusted by Firefox, it looks bad. There
are CAs from countries all over the world.

I would say that 99% of users do not need a CA from some mid-eastern or far-eastern
countries. But each and every of these can give a forged certificate for anything that
will be gladly accepted by Firefox.

To me the security model of Firefox appears too permissive. I have seen online banks
which do include page elements, even javascript from 3 parties severs, different domains
and certificates. Yet there is one URL shown and the user is lead to believe everthing
is certified by the same authority.

Richard
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 05:15 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org