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Old 04-20-2010, 05:18 PM
Mark Bidewell
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

I have been dealing with this issue in the context of Ubuntu Lucid,
however since it can be reproduced under F13 Beta I thought it would
be wise to raise it here. In some cases, gnome-games do not properly
fall back to software rendering and fail to start. This bug happens
reliably with KVM and VirtualBox but has been reported on real HW.
The bugs are:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615630
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/561734

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Old 04-20-2010, 05:28 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Mark Bidewell <mbidewel@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been dealing with this issue in the context of Ubuntu Lucid,
> however since it can be reproduced under F13 Beta I thought it would
> be wise to raise it here. *In some cases, gnome-games do not properly
> fall back to software rendering and fail to start. *This bug happens
> reliably with KVM and VirtualBox but has been reported on real HW.
> The bugs are:

Yep i ran into this as well, when I was forced to fall back to the
vesa driver (long story..not important) Once I moved to a driver with
accelerated graphics support problem went away.

If my experience is right, anyone should be able to reproduce this on
any hardware by using the vesa driver and turning off modesetting. I
just haven't gotten around to filing it against Fedora Beta
yet...sorry

-jef
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:32 PM
drago01
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Mark Bidewell <mbidewel@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have been dealing with this issue in the context of Ubuntu Lucid,
>> however since it can be reproduced under F13 Beta I thought it would
>> be wise to raise it here. *In some cases, gnome-games do not properly
>> fall back to software rendering and fail to start. *This bug happens
>> reliably with KVM and VirtualBox but has been reported on real HW.
>> The bugs are:
>
> Yep i ran into this as well, when I was forced to fall back to the
> vesa driver (long story..not important) *Once I moved to a driver with
> accelerated graphics support problem went away.
>
> If my experience is right, anyone should be able to reproduce this on
> any hardware by using the vesa driver and turning off modesetting.

Clutter is not targeting mesa's software rastersizer ... so clutter
upstream do not really care if it works without any hardware support
or not.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:52 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:32 AM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
> Clutter is not targeting mesa's software rastersizer ... so clutter
> upstream do not really care if it works without any hardware support
> or not.


Which is all fine for an optional component gnome-shell which
explicitly states it targets hardware accelerated graphics only. But
should be be putting clutter based apps into the default packageset
for the desktop in F13 if they don't fallback gracefully for
unaccelerated graphics? We haven't stated that accelerated hardware
will be a minimum requirement in F13 have we? I know its coming, but
we haven't actually crossed that line yet. If we can't get this
working with software rendering as a fallback...perhaps we jettison
this game from the default packageset and move it over to
gnome-games-extra.

-jef
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:00 PM
Mark Bidewell
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:32 AM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Clutter is not targeting mesa's software rastersizer ... so clutter
>> upstream do not really care if it works without any hardware support
>> or not.
>
>
> Which is all fine for an optional component gnome-shell which
> explicitly states it targets hardware accelerated graphics only. * But
> should be be putting clutter based apps into the default packageset
> for the desktop in F13 if they don't fallback gracefully for
> unaccelerated graphics? *We haven't stated that accelerated hardware
> will be a minimum requirement in F13 have we? I know its coming, but
> we haven't actually crossed that line yet. *If we can't get this
> working with software rendering as a fallback...perhaps we jettison
> this game from the default packageset and move it over to
> gnome-games-extra.
>
> -jef
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>

Quadrapassel is in gnome-games-extra. One interesting note I will try
to get more details on. is that some are reporting the bug when using
nouveau (which I assumed was accelerated).

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Old 04-20-2010, 06:02 PM
drago01
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:32 AM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Clutter is not targeting mesa's software rastersizer ... so clutter
>> upstream do not really care if it works without any hardware support
>> or not.
>
>
> Which is all fine for an optional component gnome-shell which
> explicitly states it targets hardware accelerated graphics only. * But
> should be be putting clutter based apps into the default packageset
> for the desktop in F13 if they don't fallback gracefully for
> unaccelerated graphics?

It is just a game ...

> *We haven't stated that accelerated hardware
> will be a minimum requirement in F13 have we?

No, because it isn't F-13 does work fine without any hardware opengl support,

> I know its coming, but
> we haven't actually crossed that line yet. *If we can't get this
> working with software rendering as a fallback...

It isn't impossible but it won't be very effizent anyway ... resources
should be spent on make 3D work not run away from it.

> perhaps we jettison
> this game from the default packageset and move it over to
> gnome-games-extra.

Well again it is just a game so I don't really care but it does not
make much sense ... since when was "needs 3D" a reason to exclude
anything from the livecd ?

Ever tried to run compiz on software? (hint: desktop effects will tell
you to come back once you are using a 3D driver).
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:03 PM
drago01
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Mark Bidewell <mbidewel@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
> Quadrapassel is in gnome-games-extra. *One interesting note I will try
> to get more details on. *is that some are reporting the bug when using
> nouveau (which I assumed was accelerated).

You need to install mesa-dri-drivers-experimental for it to work.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:30 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:02 AM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is just a game ...

> Ever tried to run compiz on software? (hint: desktop effects will tell
> you to come back once you are using a 3D driver).

Ah...see here's the thing... this application doesn't actually tell
you anything...its just fails silently. You only see the error if you
run it from a terminal.

But since its already in the gnome-games-extra package, (apologizes
for mis remembering that), its not as big a deal for me. if we can
get it to fail less silently and tell the user they need accelerated
hardware to run the game then that would prevent some amount of
unneeded head scratching.

-jef"is going through blackjack withdraws"spaleta
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:39 PM
Owen Taylor
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 13:18 -0400, Mark Bidewell wrote:
> I have been dealing with this issue in the context of Ubuntu Lucid,
> however since it can be reproduced under F13 Beta I thought it would
> be wise to raise it here. In some cases, gnome-games do not properly
> fall back to software rendering and fail to start. This bug happens
> reliably with KVM and VirtualBox but has been reported on real HW.
> The bugs are:
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615630
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/561734

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=575825

Just waiting for someone with the necessary understanding of GLX to
investigate.

- Owen



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Old 04-20-2010, 06:45 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 13:18 -0400, Mark Bidewell wrote:
> I have been dealing with this issue in the context of Ubuntu Lucid,
> however since it can be reproduced under F13 Beta I thought it would
> be wise to raise it here. In some cases, gnome-games do not properly
> fall back to software rendering and fail to start. This bug happens
> reliably with KVM and VirtualBox but has been reported on real HW.
> The bugs are:
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615630
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/561734

There's another bug in this area which can be even more problematic -
sometimes quitting Clutter-based games crashes X:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=579756
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26394
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