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Old 04-19-2010, 10:51 PM
Slava Zanko
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi folk,

I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...

For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
(shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:

ls -> filesystem.list
rm -> filesystem.remove
fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
convert -> media.convert.image
mencoder -> media.convert.video
oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
mplayer -> media.player.*

etc

This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
package with lot of symlinks... and then long-time work in all present
rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
touch all distros (new standard?)

P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru% 2Fforum%2Ftalks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=en

Thanks for attention.

- --
WBR, Slavaz.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAkvM3mYACgkQb3oGR6aVLppnNQCeNDVZS37Y3/J7nBrsXDMM32rN
H48An1dWzW/TKGzcrIZ7pPZjaehEO9mm
=iD/i
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:29 PM
Ryan Rix
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

On Mon 19 April 2010 3:51:23 pm Slava Zanko wrote:
> Hi folk,
>
> I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
>
> For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
> fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
> (shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:
>
> ls -> filesystem.list
> rm -> filesystem.remove
> fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
> mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
> convert -> media.convert.image
> mencoder -> media.convert.video
> oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
> mplayer -> media.player.*
>
> etc
>
> This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
> package with lot of symlinks... and then long-time work in all present
> rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
> standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
> touch all distros (new standard?)
>
> P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&
> eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru%2Fforum%2Ft alks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=e
> n
>
> Thanks for attention.

I'm against making a mess of PATH with a crapload of symlinks.
If this were to happen, it should happen at a bashrc alias level, and even
then I'm still against it.

--
Ryan Rix
== http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://rix.si/ ==
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:39 PM
Athmane Madjoudj
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

>
> I'm against making a mess of PATH with a crapload of symlinks.
> If this were to happen, it should happen at a bashrc alias level, and even
> then I'm still against it.
>

i agree, also the proposed commands are too long to be typed in the terminal.

they look like name-spaces in a programming language

Best regards
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:43 PM
Chris Tyler
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 01:51 +0300, Slava Zanko wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi folk,
>
> I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
>
> For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
> fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
> (shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:
>
> ls -> filesystem.list
> rm -> filesystem.remove
> fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
> mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
> convert -> media.convert.image
> mencoder -> media.convert.video
> oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
> mplayer -> media.player.*
>
> etc
>
> This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
> package with lot of symlinks0007684a-0010long-time work in all present
> rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
> standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
> touch all distros (new standard?)
>
> P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru% 2Fforum%2Ftalks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=en
>
> Thanks for attention.

Actually, that's not a completely new idea -- Multics used links in
exactly this fashion decades ago, so that you could type the long or
short version of command names:

list ls
change_wdir cwd
print_wdir pwd
print_attach_table pat
last_message_time lmt
...etc...

However, the long names fell into disuse quickly, because ... no one
wants to type that much. I can almost guarantee the same thing would
happen now.

If you wanted to implement this, I would recommend using aliases rather
than symlinks. This is Open Source -- give it a whirl and see how you
like it, and if you do, then package it up and see whether its useful to
others.

-Chris

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Old 04-19-2010, 11:44 PM
Athmane Madjoudj
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

>
> i agree, also the proposed commands are too long to be typed in the terminal.
>
> they look like name-spaces in a programming language
>
> Best regards

Maybe PASH is what you are searching: http://pash.sourceforge.net/


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Old 04-19-2010, 11:51 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 01:51 +0300, Slava Zanko wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi folk,
>
> I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
>
> For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
> fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
> (shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:
>
> ls -> filesystem.list
> rm -> filesystem.remove
> fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
> mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
> convert -> media.convert.image
> mencoder -> media.convert.video
> oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
> mplayer -> media.player.*
>
> etc
>
> This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
> package with lot of symlinks... and then long-time work in all present
> rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
> standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
> touch all distros (new standard?)
>
> P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru% 2Fforum%2Ftalks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=en
>
> Thanks for attention.

This is something you don't need anyone's permission to implement. You
can simply implement it as a bunch of aliases defined in a file
in /etc/profile.d - see /etc/profile.d/colorls.sh for an example - and
then make a package with your file in it.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 04-20-2010, 12:06 AM
Michał Piotrowski
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

Hi,

2010/4/20 Slava Zanko <slavazanko@gmail.com>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi folk,
>
> I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
>
> For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
> fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
> (shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:
>
> ls -> filesystem.list
> rm -> filesystem.remove
> fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
> mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
> convert -> media.convert.image
> mencoder -> media.convert.video
> oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
> mplayer -> media.player.*
>
> etc

I really don't know why I like this idea... seems to be pretty cool.

I wouldn't use it day to day shall use, but it could be IMHO useful in
shell scripts when:
- it will be implemented in all unix os'es
- it will standardize program parameters

Let's imagine such situation - you need to write portable shell script
(I know "portable" and "shell script" is a bad joke ) across many
os'es:
- on OS A you need to use program foo with flag --bar
- on OS B you need to use program bas with --foo flag

It could be standarised with
do.that.thing --most-popular-flag-that-do-the-trick

>
> This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
> package with lot of symlinks... and then long-time work in all present
> rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
> standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
> touch all distros (new standard?)
>
> P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru% 2Fforum%2Ftalks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=en
>
> Thanks for attention.
>
> - --
> WBR, Slavaz.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkvM3mYACgkQb3oGR6aVLppnNQCeNDVZS37Y3/J7nBrsXDMM32rN
> H48An1dWzW/TKGzcrIZ7pPZjaehEO9mm
> =iD/i
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:15 AM
Bernd Stramm
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 02:06 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2010/4/20 Slava Zanko <slavazanko@gmail.com>:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Hi folk,
> >
> > I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
> >
> > For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
> > fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
> > (shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:
> >
> > ls -> filesystem.list
> > rm -> filesystem.remove
> > fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
> > mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
> > convert -> media.convert.image
> > mencoder -> media.convert.video
> > oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
> > mplayer -> media.player.*
> >
> > etc
>
> I really don't know why I like this idea... seems to be pretty cool.
>
> I wouldn't use it day to day shall use, but it could be IMHO useful in
> shell scripts when:
> - it will be implemented in all unix os'es
> - it will standardize program parameters
>
> Let's imagine such situation - you need to write portable shell script
> (I know "portable" and "shell script" is a bad joke ) across many
> os'es:
> - on OS A you need to use program foo with flag --bar
> - on OS B you need to use program bas with --foo flag
>
> It could be standarised with
> do.that.thing --most-popular-flag-that-do-the-trick
>

Woudn't work, everyone would want their own standard. Again.

Also with these really long names, by the time you're finished typing a
command (and fixing all the typos), you have forgotten why you wanted to
do it.

> >
> > This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
> > package with lot of symlinks... and then long-time work in all present
> > rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
> > standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
> > touch all distros (new standard?)
> >
> > P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
> > http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru% 2Fforum%2Ftalks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=en
> >
> > Thanks for attention.
> >
> > - --
> > WBR, Slavaz.
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAkvM3mYACgkQb3oGR6aVLppnNQCeNDVZS37Y3/J7nBrsXDMM32rN
> > H48An1dWzW/TKGzcrIZ7pPZjaehEO9mm
> > =iD/i
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > --
> > devel mailing list
> > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >

--
No amount of shouting at the round earth will make it flat.

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Old 04-20-2010, 12:20 AM
Michał Piotrowski
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

2010/4/20 Bernd Stramm <bernd.stramm@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 02:06 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2010/4/20 Slava Zanko <slavazanko@gmail.com>:
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > Hi folk,
>> >
>> > I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
>> >
>> > For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
>> > fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use. Is good idea to symlink'ing
>> > (shell aliasing) these and much more utilz to another names? Like to:
>> >
>> > ls -> filesystem.list
>> > rm -> filesystem.remove
>> > fsck.* -> filesystem.check.*
>> > mkfs.* -> filesystem.make.*
>> > convert -> media.convert.image
>> > mencoder -> media.convert.video
>> > oggenc -> media.convert.audio.ogg
>> > mplayer -> media.player.*
>> >
>> > etc
>>
>> I really don't know why I like this idea... seems to be pretty cool.
>>
>> I wouldn't use it day to day shall use, but it could be IMHO useful in
>> shell scripts when:
>> - it will be implemented in all unix os'es
>> - it will standardize program parameters
>>
>> Let's imagine such situation - you need to write portable shell script
>> (I know "portable" and "shell script" is a bad joke ) across many
>> os'es:
>> - on OS A you need to use program foo with flag --bar
>> - on OS B you need to use program bas with --foo flag
>>
>> It could be standarised with
>> do.that.thing --most-popular-flag-that-do-the-trick
>>
>
> Woudn't work, everyone would want their own standard. Again.

True

>
> Also with these really long names, by the time you're finished typing a
> command (and fixing all the typos), you have forgotten why you wanted to
> do it.

Indeed

>
>> >
>> > This idea will be easy to realize (need to make at first time one rpm
>> > package with lot of symlinks... and then long-time work in all present
>> > rpm-packages for respect this technology). But we need for
>> > standartization of alias names... in ideal case, standartization must
>> > touch all distros (new standard?)
>> >
>> > P.S. This not my idea. Originally from:
>> > http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linux.org.ru% 2Fforum%2Ftalks%2F4797323&sl=ru&tl=en
>> >
>> > Thanks for attention.
>> >
>> > - --
>> > WBR, Slavaz.
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>> >
>> > iEYEARECAAYFAkvM3mYACgkQb3oGR6aVLppnNQCeNDVZS37Y3/J7nBrsXDMM32rN
>> > H48An1dWzW/TKGzcrIZ7pPZjaehEO9mm
>> > =iD/i
>> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > --
>> > devel mailing list
>> > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>> >
>
> --
> No amount of shouting at the round earth will make it flat.
>
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:37 AM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Shell commands like to OS/2 shell (or MS PowerShell)

On 19/04/10 23:51, Slava Zanko wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi folk,
>
> I want to propose new idea about names of command line utilites...
>
> For example, all present utilites have sence just for guru's (ls, rm,
> fsck etc), but for novies it's hard to use.

Bookmark this:
http://ss64.com/bash/

Less typing, less for novices to forget.

--
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded, Fedora.x86 64-32 Hybrid
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