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Till Maas 03-18-2010 07:55 PM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
Hi,

how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
without any problems.

Regards
Till

[0] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table
[1]
http://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_4_KiB_sector_issues#Random_thoughts_and_commen ts_.28mostly_for_distros.29
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Matt Domsch 03-19-2010 03:25 AM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 09:55:37PM +0100, Till Maas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
> the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
> Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
> partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
> without any problems.

Very few BIOSes can boot from a GPT disk. EFI/UEFI can, as can legacy
BIOS if you do something ugly like gptsync so the MBR partition table
and the GPT partition table at least somewhat agree.

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John Reiser 03-19-2010 04:30 AM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On 03/18/2010 09:25 PM, Matt Domsch wrote:
> Very few BIOSes can boot from a GPT disk. EFI/UEFI can, as can legacy
> BIOS if you do something ugly like gptsync so the MBR partition table
> and the GPT partition table at least somewhat agree.

Does this mean that the presence of a GPT partition table somehow prevents
the BIOS from reading the first sector into memory, jumping to it,
and afterwards reading other sectors (with LBA48 addresses) into memory?

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Karel Zak 03-19-2010 08:34 AM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:25:45PM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 09:55:37PM +0100, Till Maas wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
> > the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
> > Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
> > partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
> > without any problems.
>
> Very few BIOSes can boot from a GPT disk.

Urban legend...

> EFI/UEFI can, as can legacy
> BIOS if you do something ugly like gptsync so the MBR partition table
> and the GPT partition table at least somewhat agree.

The problem is old grub.

Karel

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Till Maas 03-19-2010 09:05 AM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:34:59AM +0100, Karel Zak wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:25:45PM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 09:55:37PM +0100, Till Maas wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
> > > the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
> > > Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
> > > partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
> > > without any problems.
> >
> > Very few BIOSes can boot from a GPT disk.
>
> Urban legend...

I am also pretty sure that a BIOS does not consider the partition table
to boot, because it only needs to access the first 440 (maybe 446) bytes
of hard disk, which will not be touched by GPT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record

> > EFI/UEFI can, as can legacy
> > BIOS if you do something ugly like gptsync so the MBR partition table
> > and the GPT partition table at least somewhat agree.
>
> The problem is old grub.

But the Fedora grub is supposed to support it for a long time:
| * Mon Jul 16 2007 Peter Jones <pjones redhat com> - 0.97-15
| - Support booting from GPT

Regards
Till
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Manuel Wolfshant 03-19-2010 09:22 AM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
Till Maas wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:34:59AM +0100, Karel Zak wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:25:45PM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 09:55:37PM +0100, Till Maas wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
>>>> the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
>>>> Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
>>>> partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
>>>> without any problems.
>>>>
>>> Very few BIOSes can boot from a GPT disk.
>>>
>> Urban legend...
>>
>
> I am also pretty sure that a BIOS does not consider the partition table
> to boot,
I can vouch for at least 2 Intel based motherboards which do not boot
unless a) there exists a partition table and b) one partition is marked
as active

however, to be honest, those are OLD mobos and probably not relevant any
more
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Till Maas 03-19-2010 11:14 AM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 12:22:56PM +0200, Manuel Wolfshant wrote:
> Till Maas wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:34:59AM +0100, Karel Zak wrote:

> > I am also pretty sure that a BIOS does not consider the partition table
> > to boot,
> I can vouch for at least 2 Intel based motherboards which do not boot
> unless a) there exists a partition table and b) one partition is marked
> as active

There still will be a partition table, but it will always show a
partition that starts at sector 1. By default it seems not to be marked
as active, but this should be possible. This is then the old style
partition, that contains the new GPT header and partitions.

Regards
Till
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David Woodhouse 03-19-2010 12:04 PM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 21:55 +0100, Till Maas wrote:
> how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
> the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
> Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
> partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
> without any problems.

Are there any good reasons to do this _other_ than so we can cope with
larger disks?

How about doing it only for disks which are too large to cope with the
DOS-style partition tables?

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Till Maas 03-19-2010 12:28 PM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 01:04:29PM +0000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 21:55 +0100, Till Maas wrote:
> > how about using GPT[0] partitions for F14 for all installations that wipe
> > the whole disk to install Fedora? It is also considered to be good by
> > Tejun Heo[1] and it seems to work nicely already on F12. I just
> > partitioned a new HD using gdisk and the kernel seems to recognise it
> > without any problems.
>
> Are there any good reasons to do this _other_ than so we can cope with
> larger disks?

Afaik it is also required in case one uses EFI instead of a BIOS. Doing
this soon would make Fedora ready once it is required. Other nice
features are checksums for the partition table and file system
independent uuids for the partitions and file system independent clear
text names for partitions. These can be used to easier identify
partitions that do not contain a file system, e.g. because they are
encrypted or they have been wiped. Then they could be easier identified
to be used again, e.g. in the installer.

> How about doing it only for disks which are too large to cope with the
> DOS-style partition tables?

For large disks it would be required anyhow. But it does not need to be
default, at least support for it in the installer would be nice.

Regards
Till
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Jesse Keating 03-19-2010 03:52 PM

Potential F14 featu Use GPT partition table by default for "wipe complete HD" installations
 
On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 13:04 +0000, David Woodhouse wrote:
> Are there any good reasons to do this _other_ than so we can cope with
> larger disks?
>
> How about doing it only for disks which are too large to cope with the
> DOS-style partition tables?
>
>

Why deal with two different types of partitioning tables? Why /not/ go
forward to GPT, I think that's the more appropriate question.

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