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Old 03-16-2010, 08:11 PM
Thomas Janssen
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

Hi,

im orphaning:

e_dbus
ecore
edje
eet
efreet
embryo
emotion
epeg
epsilon
evas
ewl
libeina

Reason:
The problem started with my co-maintainer cassmodiah, building embryo
.063 release for F-13 without waiting for me to have the complete
chain built at least locally and having it tested. That's the way i do
my packaging stuff. Nothing terribly bad so far, he just wanted to
help me.

While i was fiddling with some DSO problem i had some talk with
upstream. Upstream recommended to me to deprecate some packages since
they aren't supported anymore, but change the chain to their DR17 and
EFL release 1.0 that's soon coming up.
http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Packaging

I was waiting for that release to get it eventually into F-13. At some
point, a few days ago, i decided that i can't wait for it for F-13 and
was thinking about using epoch to downgrade embryo again. Thankfully,
cwickert made the point that i could ask rel-eng to get this build
untaged. I made a ticket for it with rel-eng and had another one to do
with FESCo since rel-eng couldn't do it on it's own. Both rel-eng and
FESCo did a perfect job there and decided the right thing for the
enduser to get it untaged. Thank you very much again.

The real reason to get the packages orphaned is the continued
annoyance of cwickert on IRC (#fedora-de), trying to force me into the
role of the bad guy there, since he did not understand the problem,
even not in the FESCo Meeting from today. See the FESCo ticket to get
a hint of what was going on in #fedora-de.
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/355
Trying to force anybody into pushing an untested release into F-13.
You can see that even in the Meeting log. Instead of let me do my job
as package maintainer. So i'm really sick and tired and give it away.

Coming back to that social problem mentioned. The rel-eng ticket was
clearly mentioned in #fedora-de and even to cassmodiah (if i have to
upload backlogs, cassmodiah == boelkmoeller3), not just by me, but as
well by cwickert. Everything was talked about, as well what i want to
do.
The only social problem here was an arrogant and stubborn cwickert.
Sorry, but i can't stand a liar.

If someone want to grab the packages, feel free.

--
LG Thomas

Dubium sapientiae initium
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:02 AM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

Am Dienstag, den 16.03.2010, 22:11 +0100 schrieb Thomas Janssen:

> The real reason to get the packages orphaned is the continued
> annoyance of cwickert on IRC (#fedora-de), trying to force me into the
> role of the bad guy there, since he did not understand the problem,
> even not in the FESCo Meeting from today. See the FESCo ticket to get
> a hint of what was going on in #fedora-de.
> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/355
> Trying to force anybody into pushing an untested release into F-13.
> You can see that even in the Meeting log. Instead of let me do my job
> as package maintainer. So i'm really sick and tired and give it away.
>
> Coming back to that social problem mentioned. The rel-eng ticket was
> clearly mentioned in #fedora-de and even to cassmodiah (if i have to
> upload backlogs, cassmodiah == boelkmoeller3), not just by me, but as
> well by cwickert. Everything was talked about, as well what i want to
> do.
> The only social problem here was an arrogant and stubborn cwickert.
> Sorry, but i can't stand a liar.

Please don't call me a liar if you are not even telling half the truth:
* Several people - me included - repeatedly offered to their help
to fix the breakage that your co-maintainer caused. In order to
help you, they need details like build logs etc, but you even
refused to tell which packages are causing problems. We asked
you several times, but got no reply.
* You claim that two packages are broken, but according to Rudolf
everything does build fine and it's just a "trivial update".
* You claimed that you wanted to brief your co-maintainer and
explain him everything in detail. This never happened. The mail
you sent him is full of accusations, but no technical details.
* You claimed that in order to update you needed new packages that
will not be ready in time for F13, while others confirmed the
stack does build with the packages that are currently in Fedora.
* You had several weeks for testing, updates or submitting
reviews. None of this happened.
* In the trac ticket you claim that the update path was broken
through the embryo update. This is not true. There have been
broken deps for weeks, but not a broken upgrade path.
* Several neutral observers of the conversation in fedora-de#
today said you were argued illogical, e.g.
* You said you needed testers, but you refused to build the
packages at least in rawhide. Without packages there will be no
testers, simple as that.
* You repeatedly insulted people (not only me) on IRC.

If you refuse to answer a simple yes/no question and wont let people
help you, then I really think there is a social problem.

Regards,
Christoph

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Old 03-17-2010, 07:13 AM
Thomas Janssen
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:02 AM, Christoph Wickert
<christoph.wickert@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 16.03.2010, 22:11 +0100 schrieb Thomas Janssen:
>
>> The real reason to get the packages orphaned is the continued
>> annoyance of cwickert on IRC (#fedora-de), trying to force me into the
>> role of the bad guy there, since he did not understand the problem,
>> even not in the FESCo Meeting from today. See the FESCo ticket to get
>> a hint of what was going on in #fedora-de.
>> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/355
>> Trying to force anybody into pushing an untested release into F-13.
>> You can see that even in the Meeting log. Instead of let me do my job
>> as package maintainer. So i'm really sick and tired and give it away.
>>
>> Coming back to that social problem mentioned. The rel-eng ticket was
>> clearly mentioned in #fedora-de and even to cassmodiah (if i have to
>> upload backlogs, cassmodiah == boelkmoeller3), not just by me, but as
>> well by cwickert. Everything was talked about, as well what i want to
>> do.
>> The only social problem here was an arrogant and stubborn cwickert.
>> Sorry, but i can't stand a liar.
>
> Please don't call me a liar if you are not even telling half the truth:
> * * ** Several people - me included - repeatedly offered to their help
> * * * *to fix the breakage that your co-maintainer caused. In order to
> * * * *help you, they need details like build logs etc, but you even
> * * * *refused to tell which packages are causing problems. We asked
> * * * *you several times, but got no reply.

Did i ask for help? No. I asked upstream, that might be something new
to you that one can ask upstream as well. And i give a lot more of
what they tell me than what *you* tell me. And there's a reason for
it.

> * * ** You claim that two packages are broken, but according to Rudolf
> * * * *everything does build fine and it's just a "trivial update".

I dunno how often i have to write it until you understand it. Seems to
me you're not reading at all.

> * * ** You claimed that you wanted to brief your co-maintainer and
> * * * *explain him everything in detail. This never happened. The mail
> * * * *you sent him is full of accusations, but no technical details.

Everything was explained in IRC, the same channel he's in, #fedora-de. Please..
Though i wrote him the email and told him again what i wanted to do.
I hope you recall that i sent the mail and i still have it around. Liar.


> * * ** You claimed that in order to update you needed new packages that
> * * * *will not be ready in time for F13, while others confirmed the
> * * * *stack does build with the packages that are currently in Fedora.

You want to read, what you quoted out, again. Since that is what i
claimed all day long.

> * * ** You had several weeks for testing, updates or submitting
> * * * *reviews. None of this happened.

As i said. I was the packager. *You* don't have to tell me what to do.
And you never understood what i told you.

> * * ** In the trac ticket you claim that the update path was broken
> * * * *through the embryo update. This is not true. There have been
> * * * *broken deps for weeks, but not a broken upgrade path.

...

> * * ** Several neutral observers of the conversation in fedora-de#
> * * * *today said you were argued illogical, e.g.
> * * ** You said you needed testers, but you refused to build the
> * * * *packages at least in rawhide. Without packages there will be no
> * * * *testers, simple as that.

No. I never said i need testers. I said *I* want to test it before i
offer it. Kinda different isn't it. If you dont like how i handle my
packages, that i first test stuff built locally and then push it to
repos, feel free to try to remove my packager status.

> * * ** You repeatedly insulted people (not only me) on IRC.

I insulted only *you*. Yes, yesterday i was giving you everything back
from the last weeks. I had to join #fedora-de again for it, but it was
worth it. Especially after this last post in the FESCo ticket and the
again started accusation in #fedora-de.

> If you refuse to answer a simple yes/no question and wont let people
> help you, then I really think there is a social problem.

Answer *you* a question i answered already about 10 times. But you
haven't understand yet, why would you in the future. So i refused to
answer the question again *but* pointed you to your backlogs where the
answer is multiple times.
Oh, i forgot, you wanted already an answer (especially yesterday in
#fedora-de for the rhetoric question if i sent a srpm and a buildlog
to che. I never asked him for help, i never needed the help from him
or you there, so why would i do that? Because you wanted so, because
you think you're the big boss there. Not for me

I'm sorry. but you *are* a liar. You proved it again that you don't
understand it like several times before. I really wonder how someone
like you made it into FESCo.

I already left #fedora-de because i can't stand your continued
annoyance started with the updates threads. Because we had different
meanings to it, and your "Mr. nose at all" with the DR17 and EFL
stuff. You poisoned the relationship (co-maintainership) between your
mate Simon and me.

All i want from you, is keep your nose out of my business. I never
requested anything from you, i don't need you or want anything from
you, so stay away from me.

--
LG Thomas

Dubium sapientiae initium
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:30 AM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

Thomas,

I don't want to go into details because I don't want a flame war, but
the IRC backlogs prove you wrong in different ways. And still I wouldn't
dare calling you a liar.

Am Mittwoch, den 17.03.2010, 09:13 +0100 schrieb Thomas Janssen:

> I'm sorry. but you *are* a liar. You proved it again that you don't
> understand it like several times before.

A lack of understanding is something completely different than a lie. If
you accuse me of lying then you should at least prove this accusation,
but again, you are not providing any details. Ether retract the "liar"
or prove it.

It's ok if you are not willing to explain something to me, but you also
refused to explain it to your co-maintainer and others. Please explain
it at least to the readers of this list, so they can get picture of
what's going on.

Regards,
Christoph

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Old 03-17-2010, 11:46 AM
Till Maas
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 01:30:01PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:

> It's ok if you are not willing to explain something to me, but you also
> refused to explain it to your co-maintainer and others. Please explain
> it at least to the readers of this list, so they can get picture of
> what's going on.

Please don not explain anymore here on this list. It is now obvious that
there have been misunderstandings and if you want to resolve your
conflict, please do this in private or ask for a mediator if you would
like to have one. I could do this, but I believe you can do this
yourself, after you have calmed down and maybe got some distance.

Regards
Till
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:25 PM
Simon Wesp
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

Am Dienstag, den 16.03.2010, 22:11 +0100 schrieb Thomas Janssen:
> Hi,
As-Salāmu `Alaykum

> im orphaning:
>
> e_dbus
> ecore
> edje
> eet
> efreet
> embryo
> emotion
> epeg
> epsilon
> evas
> ewl
> libeina
and I will also orphan enlightenment.

> Reason:
> The problem started with my co-maintainer cassmodiah, building embryo
> .063 release for F-13 without waiting for me to have the complete
> chain built at least locally and having it tested. That's the way i do
> my packaging stuff. Nothing terribly bad so far, he just wanted to
> help me.
Sorry for this, but this should be fixable. I haven't understand why you
made such a trouble for this silly mistake I made...!?

> While i was fiddling with some DSO problem i had some talk with
> upstream. Upstream recommended to me to deprecate some packages since
> they aren't supported anymore, but change the chain to their DR17 and
> EFL release 1.0 that's soon coming up.
> http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Packaging
>
> I was waiting for that release to get it eventually into F-13. At some
> point, a few days ago, i decided that i can't wait for it for F-13 and
> was thinking about using epoch to downgrade embryo again. Thankfully,
> cwickert made the point that i could ask rel-eng to get this build
> untaged. I made a ticket for it with rel-eng and had another one to do
> with FESCo since rel-eng couldn't do it on it's own. Both rel-eng and
> FESCo did a perfect job there and decided the right thing for the
> enduser to get it untaged. Thank you very much again.
>
> The real reason to get the packages orphaned is the continued
> annoyance of cwickert on IRC (#fedora-de), trying to force me into the
> role of the bad guy there, since he did not understand the problem,
> even not in the FESCo Meeting from today. See the FESCo ticket to get
> a hint of what was going on in #fedora-de.
> https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/355
> Trying to force anybody into pushing an untested release into F-13.
> You can see that even in the Meeting log. Instead of let me do my job
> as package maintainer. So i'm really sick and tired and give it away.
>
> Coming back to that social problem mentioned. The rel-eng ticket was
> clearly mentioned in #fedora-de and even to cassmodiah (if i have to
> upload backlogs, cassmodiah == boelkmoeller3), not just by me, but as
> well by cwickert. Everything was talked about, as well what i want to
> do.
> The only social problem here was an arrogant and stubborn cwickert.
> Sorry, but i can't stand a liar.
Sorry, but I don't understand this. Christoph is my best friend in the
Fedora Project. He is sometimes a little bit stubborn and sometimes a
arrogant guy, but he is always fair and he has a open ear for everyone
and every problem and he always gives his best to deal justly.
He's like a modern Salomo and if you have a problem with Christoph, you
should discuss this with him directly, or add him to your ignore list
for continueing a noisefree maintaining of your stuff. Imho the fact
that you have a personal problem with anybody in the project isn't a
good reason for orphaning packages. It's your decision and I don't want
to disabuse you, but you turn down any help (Rudof Kastl known as Che
and Christoph Wickert and Sven Lankes, knwown as killefiz offers you
help) and you are not able to take crtism. Maybe this is the real reason
for this problem?!
Don't take anything (which is spoken to you) personally, it's just
business.....

> If someone want to grab the packages, feel free.
Nobody wants this packages? Sad! I can't maintain the whole
enlightenment tree alone , because I haven't enough time and knowledge
base to handle this, although some friends offers me help to fix this.
I would take these packages again if there is a bunch of people who
tried to help me permanently, but I'm pessimistic of this. :-( It's very
sad, because enlightenment is a cool desktop and a real alternative to
other windowmanagers like the ugly openbox. LXDE for example works with
enlightenment and it's very cool to have a desktop that gives you such a
style without being a fat bitch :-p (Sorry Christoph, but you already
know my opinion)

> --
> LG Thomas
>
> Dubium sapientiae initium
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus dem schönen Hainzell
Simon Wesp

http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SimonWesp
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:48 PM
Thomas Janssen
 
Default Orphaning DR17 and EFL

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Simon Wesp
<cassmodiah@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 16.03.2010, 22:11 +0100 schrieb Thomas Janssen:
>> Hi,
> As-Salāmu `Alaykum
>
>> im orphaning:
>>
>> e_dbus
>> ecore
>> edje
>> eet
>> efreet
>> embryo
>> emotion
>> epeg
>> epsilon
>> evas
>> ewl
>> libeina
> and I will also orphan enlightenment.

Orphan it and i will take the complete chain.

--
LG Thomas

Dubium sapientiae initium
--
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devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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