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Old 03-06-2010, 04:00 PM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default Another great update

While we are at it, here is another great update:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F11/FEDORA-2010-3326

* New version introduced in F11.
* Doesn't fix any bugs but it's an enhancement only.
* Useless update description "update to 4.7.1".
* And *of course* it was pushed directly to stable, even in F-13.

Dear maintainers, please stop this!

Regards,
Christoph

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Old 03-06-2010, 04:17 PM
Michał Piotrowski
 
Default Another great update

Hi,

2010/3/6 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>:
> While we are at it, here is another great update:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F11/FEDORA-2010-3326
>
> ┬* ┬* ┬** New version introduced in F11.
> ┬* ┬* ┬** Doesn't fix any bugs but it's an enhancement only.
> ┬* ┬* ┬** Useless update description "update to 4.7.1".
> ┬* ┬* ┬** And *of course* it was pushed directly to stable, even in F-13.
>
> Dear maintainers, please stop this!
>
> Regards,
> Christoph
>

Is there any Fedora update policy? Because I don't understand the
criteria for Fedora package update.

Why I can install KDE 4.4 in F11 and I can't install latest gnome?
(I'm just asking because I'm curious, not because I use Linux on
desktop)

>From my user point of view, I would prefer to don't have any
significant updates in previous stable version - just security fixes.

Regards,
Michal
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:49 PM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default Another great update

Am Samstag, den 06.03.2010, 18:17 +0100 schrieb Michał Piotrowski:
> Hi,
>
> 2010/3/6 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert@foomail.com>:
> > While we are at it, here is another great update:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F11/FEDORA-2010-3326
> >
> > * New version introduced in F11.
> > * Doesn't fix any bugs but it's an enhancement only.
> > * Useless update description "update to 4.7.1".
> > * And *of course* it was pushed directly to stable, even in F-13.
> >
> > Dear maintainers, please stop this!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Christoph
> >
>
> Is there any Fedora update policy?

Not yet, but we are working on it, see
http://jwboyer.livejournal.com/36737.html

> Because I don't understand the
> criteria for Fedora package update.
>
> Why I can install KDE 4.4 in F11 and I can't install latest gnome?

Because the KDE SIG uses different criteria than most of the other
packagers.

> From my user point of view, I would prefer to don't have any
> significant updates in previous stable version - just security fixes.

Fully agreed, but this is something we are discussing for the last two
weeks and I don't expect an agreement in the near future. While I think
that the decision about an update should generally be up to the
maintainers, I think KDE or this update show that we were better off
with an official policy.

> Regards,
> Michal

Regards,
Christoph

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Old 03-06-2010, 04:58 PM
Till Maas
 
Default Another great update

On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:49:03PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:

> maintainers, I think KDE or this update show that we were better off
> with an official policy.

Did the mc update break something?

Regards
Till
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:13 PM
Naheem Zaffar
 
Default Another great update

2010/3/6 Michał Piotrowski <mkkp4x4@gmail.com>




Why I can install KDE 4.4 in F11 and I can't install latest gnome?

(I'm just asking because I'm curious, not because I use Linux on

desktop)
I think for many people the issue is not that it can be an update (maybe the enhancements etc are useful to someone).

As an end user, I would think there should be asafety precaution on non urgent updates to go through updates-testing.


FTR, I DO like and want feature updates.

Updates-testing will not catch everything, but it should help catch soime "nuclear" issues that otherwise may have sneaked past.

I think the current update process is very good and well liked by me. But tweaking it is not a big problem.


PS other places that have more stable updates also have their problems - there are many users who dislike Ubuntu because bugs are not fixed and they have to live with them far too long.


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Old 03-06-2010, 05:22 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Another great update

On 03/06/2010 11:28 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 06:49:03PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>
>
>> maintainers, I think KDE or this update show that we were better off
>> with an official policy.
>>
> Did the mc update break something?
>

Even if it did not it would be useful to get a proper description of
what the updates involves and as the current guidelines recommend a
summary of the changes or link to the upstream changelog


Rahul


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Old 03-06-2010, 05:30 PM
Michał Piotrowski
 
Default Another great update

2010/3/6 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>:
> Am Samstag, den 06.03.2010, 18:17 +0100 schrieb Michał Piotrowski:
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2010/3/6 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert@foomail.com>:
>> > While we are at it, here is another great update:
>> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F11/FEDORA-2010-3326
>> >
>> > ┬* ┬* ┬** New version introduced in F11.
>> > ┬* ┬* ┬** Doesn't fix any bugs but it's an enhancement only.
>> > ┬* ┬* ┬** Useless update description "update to 4.7.1".
>> > ┬* ┬* ┬** And *of course* it was pushed directly to stable, even in F-13.
>> >
>> > Dear maintainers, please stop this!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Christoph
>> >
>>
>> Is there any Fedora update policy?
>
> Not yet, but we are working on it, see
> http://jwboyer.livejournal.com/36737.html
>
>> Because I don't understand the
>> criteria for Fedora package update.
>>
>> Why I can install KDE 4.4 in F11 and I can't install latest gnome?
>
> Because the KDE SIG uses different criteria than most of the other
> packagers.
>
>> From my user point of view, I would prefer to don't have any
>> significant updates in previous stable version - just security fixes.
>
> Fully agreed, but this is something we are discussing for the last two
> weeks

I have seen some discussions, but I don't follow them. I'm waiting for
results

> and I don't expect an agreement in the near future.

Pity. There are many Fedora policies that are useless for end users
like me, but update policy would be quite usefull.

> While I think
> that the decision about an update should generally be up to the
> maintainers, I think KDE or this update show that we were better off
> with an official policy.
>
>> Regards,
>> Michal
>
> Regards,
> Christoph
>
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Regards,
Michal
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:38 PM
Michał Piotrowski
 
Default Another great update

2010/3/6 Naheem Zaffar <naheemzaffar@gmail.com>:
>
>
> 2010/3/6 Michał Piotrowski <mkkp4x4@gmail.com>
>>
>> Why I can install KDE 4.4 in F11 and I can't install latest gnome?
>> (I'm just asking because I'm curious, not because I use Linux on
>> desktop)
>
> I think for many people the issue is not that it can be an update (maybe the
> enhancements etc are useful to someone).
>
> As an end user, I would think there should be asafety precaution on non
> urgent updates to go through updates-testing.
>
> FTR, I DO like and want feature updates.
>
> Updates-testing will not catch everything, but it should help catch soime
> "nuclear" issues that otherwise may have sneaked past.
>
> I think the current update process is very good and well liked by me. But
> tweaking it is not a big problem.
>
> PS other places that have more stable updates also have their problems -
> there are many users who dislike Ubuntu because bugs are not fixed and they
> have to live with them far too long.
>

I generally agree with your POV for actual stable F12 - latest and
greatest updates for peoples who likes bleeding edge. But previous
stable (F11) IMHO should be considered as "in maintenance mode" -
security and bug fixes only.

Just my 0.02 $.

Regards,
Michal
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:10 PM
Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
 
Default Another great update

On Saturday, 06 March 2010 at 18:49, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> Am Samstag, den 06.03.2010, 18:17 +0100 schrieb Michał Piotrowski:
[...]
> > Because I don't understand the
> > criteria for Fedora package update.
> >
> > Why I can install KDE 4.4 in F11 and I can't install latest gnome?
>
> Because the KDE SIG uses different criteria than most of the other
> packagers.

How do you know what criteria most packagers use? I assume you have done
some analysis, since you stated that so authoritatively. Can we see your
analysis?

Regards,
R.
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default Another great update

Am Samstag, den 06.03.2010, 19:30 +0100 schrieb Michał Piotrowski:

> I have seen some discussions, but I don't follow them. I'm waiting for
> results

Get involved, try to influence the discussion.

> Pity. There are many Fedora policies that are useless for end users
> like me, but update policy would be quite usefull.

Then you should at least vote at:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=241710

Regards,
Christoph

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