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Old 03-02-2010, 07:43 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

Enrico Scholz (enrico.scholz@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de) said:
> > I'm not quite sure why it needs separate lsb/upstart init scripts
> > anyway.
>
> All the initscripts have huge and broken dependency chains.
> E.g. assuming I would use the vanilla fedora 'initscripts' package, then
> tor would still require[1] syslog, cpio, e2fsprogs, ethtool, mount, ...
> although it does not log anything, does not extract/pack anything, does
> not format a filesystem, does not configures network interfaces nor
> mounts something.

Thanks for the bug report! Oh wait, you didn't.

> 'upstart' is packaged more sanily (atm) so I want to have and provide the
> option, to install only the required stuff. This is done by splitting
> out the core functionality and the ugly stuff (-lsb/-sysvinit) which is
> used by most (but not all) people.

This is despite the fact that if you use upstart without the jobs provided
in initscripts itself (which you're trying to avoid?) your service won't
get started right anyway unless you write your own entirely separate
startup sequence.

Bill
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
> > All the initscripts have huge and broken dependency chains.
> > E.g. assuming I would use the vanilla fedora 'initscripts' package, then
> > tor would still require[1] syslog, cpio, e2fsprogs, ethtool, mount, ...
> > although it does not log anything, does not extract/pack anything, does
> > not format a filesystem, does not configures network interfaces nor
> > mounts something.
>
> Thanks for the bug report! Oh wait, you didn't.

In any case, looking over the variety of dependencies in initscripts, I've
removed a few:

- syslog - this isn't *required*, as the system boots without it
- mount (as it's provided by util-linux-ng)
- popt (runtime library, should never have been listed)
- e2fsprogs (anaconda will install the proper FS utilities for the root
filesystem)

So, the next release in rawhide will be better.

Bill
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Enrico Scholz
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

Bill Nottingham <notting@redhat.com> writes:

>> E.g. assuming I would use the vanilla fedora 'initscripts' package,
>> then tor would still require[1] syslog, cpio, e2fsprogs, ethtool,
>> mount, ... although it does not log anything, does not extract/pack
>> anything, does not format a filesystem, does not configures network
>> interfaces nor mounts something.
>
> Thanks for the bug report! Oh wait, you didn't.

afair, I suggested this on June 1 2004 in the cabal #testabc channel



Enrico
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:15 PM
Eric Sandeen
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
>>> All the initscripts have huge and broken dependency chains.
>>> E.g. assuming I would use the vanilla fedora 'initscripts' package, then
>>> tor would still require[1] syslog, cpio, e2fsprogs, ethtool, mount, ...
>>> although it does not log anything, does not extract/pack anything, does
>>> not format a filesystem, does not configures network interfaces nor
>>> mounts something.
>> Thanks for the bug report! Oh wait, you didn't.
>
> In any case, looking over the variety of dependencies in initscripts, I've
> removed a few:
>
> - syslog - this isn't *required*, as the system boots without it
> - mount (as it's provided by util-linux-ng)
> - popt (runtime library, should never have been listed)
> - e2fsprogs (anaconda will install the proper FS utilities for the root
> filesystem)

I'm guessing e2fsprogs may have been sucked in due to the various tools it
has (had) in its junkbox. Lots of those which are not ext2-specific (blkid
for example) have been split out or moved to util-linux-ng.

So thanks for dropping that

I should probably go on a hunt for other misguided requirements on e2fsprogs
these days.

-Eric

> So, the next release in rawhide will be better.
>
> Bill

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Old 03-02-2010, 08:19 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

Eric Sandeen (sandeen@redhat.com) said:
> I'm guessing e2fsprogs may have been sucked in due to the various tools it
> has (had) in its junkbox. Lots of those which are not ext2-specific (blkid
> for example) have been split out or moved to util-linux-ng.

Sort of.

...
* Mon Oct 05 1998 Cristian Gafton <gafton@redhat.com>
- requires e2fsprogs (for fsck)
...

Bill
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:23 PM
Paul Wouters
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Bill Nottingham wrote:

> Enrico Scholz (enrico.scholz@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de) said:

>> All the initscripts have huge and broken dependency chains.
>> E.g. assuming I would use the vanilla fedora 'initscripts' package, then
>> tor would still require[1] syslog, cpio, e2fsprogs, ethtool, mount, ...
>> although it does not log anything, does not extract/pack anything, does

It does not log anything because Enrico broke logging in tor package. The
tor upstream has filed that as bug report as well. They know what's secure
to log or not, and the tor package removes any logging, making server
issues and diagnosis of problems much harder with no benefits whatsoever.

>> 'upstart' is packaged more sanily (atm) so I want to have and provide the
>> option, to install only the required stuff. This is done by splitting
>> out the core functionality and the ugly stuff (-lsb/-sysvinit) which is
>> used by most (but not all) people.
>
> This is despite the fact that if you use upstart without the jobs provided
> in initscripts itself (which you're trying to avoid?) your service won't
> get started right anyway unless you write your own entirely separate
> startup sequence.

Also, the tor package has contained "the next fedora's init system" for many
versions now, and it has never become the new standard. Obviously this
packaging "to be innovative for the future" is not working out very well.

As noted before, the issue here is the Enrico is packging "his tor package",
going against the desires of both Fedora guidelines and Tor upstream.

Paul
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:39 PM
Matt Domsch
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 02:21:55PM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Enrico Scholz wrote:
>
> > Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com> writes:
> >
> >> On Tue, 2010-03-02 at 12:37 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
> >>> --> Processing Dependency: tor-lsb = 0.2.1.23-1200.fc12 for package:
> >>> tor-0.2.1.23-1200.fc12.i686
> >>
> >> This is where things go to hell. Why in the hell is tor-lsb /required/
> >> by tor?
> >
> > tor-lsb requires only lsb-core (which has a minimal set of dependencies),
> > not whole lsb. Due to broken redhat-lsb packaging (there exist bugs
> > filed aeons ago) lsb-core pulls in all the x11 stuff which is required by
> > the complete lsb spec.
> >
>
> True:
>
> repoquery -q --whatprovides lsb-core-noarch
> redhat-lsb-0:3.2-7.fc12.i686
>
> this one
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=245494
>
> and
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472633

The latter of these (really the same problem) claim to be fixed in
rawhide. The question remains to which Fedora versions the fixed
packaging will be backported.

--
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Technology Strategist, Dell Office of the CTO
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:39 PM
Matt Domsch
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 02:21:55PM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Enrico Scholz wrote:
>
> > Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com> writes:
> >
> >> On Tue, 2010-03-02 at 12:37 -0500, Dave Jones wrote:
> >>> --> Processing Dependency: tor-lsb = 0.2.1.23-1200.fc12 for package:
> >>> tor-0.2.1.23-1200.fc12.i686
> >>
> >> This is where things go to hell. Why in the hell is tor-lsb /required/
> >> by tor?
> >
> > tor-lsb requires only lsb-core (which has a minimal set of dependencies),
> > not whole lsb. Due to broken redhat-lsb packaging (there exist bugs
> > filed aeons ago) lsb-core pulls in all the x11 stuff which is required by
> > the complete lsb spec.
> >
>
> True:
>
> repoquery -q --whatprovides lsb-core-noarch
> redhat-lsb-0:3.2-7.fc12.i686
>
> this one
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=245494
>
> and
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472633

The latter of these (really the same problem) claim to be fixed in
rawhide. The question remains to which Fedora versions the fixed
packaging will be backported.

--
Matt Domsch
Technology Strategist, Dell Office of the CTO
linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:40 PM
Enrico Scholz
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

Paul Wouters <paul@xelerance.com> writes:

>>> All the initscripts have huge and broken dependency chains.
>>> E.g. assuming I would use the vanilla fedora 'initscripts' package, then
>>> tor would still require[1] syslog, cpio, e2fsprogs, ethtool, mount, ...
>>> although it does not log anything, does not extract/pack anything, does
>
> It does not log anything because Enrico broke logging in tor package.

Not that this was the reason, but it is the upstream setup to have
logging disabled. Your comment is unrelated to this discussion because
logging can be done into a file and does not require syslog.


> The tor upstream has filed that as bug report as well.

... and understand my reasons not to activate logging


Enrico
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:10 PM
Paul Wouters
 
Default tor dependency insanity.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Enrico Scholz wrote:

>> It does not log anything because Enrico broke logging in tor package.
>
> Not that this was the reason, but it is the upstream setup to have
> logging disabled. Your comment is unrelated to this discussion because
> logging can be done into a file and does not require syslog.
>
>
>> The tor upstream has filed that as bug report as well.
>
> ... and understand my reasons not to activate logging

That is not true. It just decided not to pick a fight over that while more
pressing bugs required you to fix them.

upstream still has this as an open bug:

http://bugs.noreply.org/flyspray/index.php?do=details&id=1133

Paul
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