Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 15:48:15 +0100,
Thomas Janssen <thomasj@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
> > opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
> <snap>
>
> *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
> who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
> feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
> maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
> packages and the E17 chain.

A couple of problems. Which packages are downloaded from mirrors is not
currently available to Fedora. You'd need a tool that reports what packages
are installed. Possibly this could be an extension to smolt. It currently
captures some information related to software, though I don't think it
gets a package list.

The other, is just because someone downloaded, or even installed a package,
doesn't mean that are actually using it (in general).
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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

> <snip>
>> - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
>> opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
> <snap>
>
> *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
> who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
> feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
> maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
> packages and the E17 chain.

Yeah, I think there's ways to increase usage visibility without being
invasive to everyone's privacy. Exact details, even for those who
opted in, aren't necessary since just having a rough count of
downloads is all maintainers need to get a general feel for how much
their package is being used.

I feel like small usability improvements and aggregated information
like this will make testing be a more predictable and fulfilling
experience, rather than a mystery. ;) Plus, this specific issue has no
significant impact on the regular user, who's not interested in
reporting data.
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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Bruno Wolff III <bruno@wolff.to> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 15:48:15 +0100,
> *Thomas Janssen <thomasj@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> > - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
>> > opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
>> <snap>
>>
>> *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
>> who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
>> feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
>> maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
>> packages and the E17 chain.
>
> A couple of problems. Which packages are downloaded from mirrors is not
> currently available to Fedora. You'd need a tool that reports what packages
> are installed. Possibly this could be an extension to smolt. It currently
> captures some information related to software, though I don't think it
> gets a package list.
>
> The other, is just because someone downloaded, or even installed a package,
> doesn't mean that are actually using it (in general).

True, but some information is better than no information, in this
case. Right now, putting a bugless package in testing isn't easily
rewarded or acknowledged. At least broken packages get some attention.
;)
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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:48:15PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree to almost everything you wrote.
>
> <snip>
> > - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
> > opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
> <snap>
>
> *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
> who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
> feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
> maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
> packages and the E17 chain.

Debian has a thing called PopCon:

http://popcon.debian.org/

Rich.

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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:57:11PM +0000, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:48:15PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree to almost everything you wrote.
> >
> > <snip>
> > > - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
> > > opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
> > <snap>
> >
> > *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
> > who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
> > feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
> > maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
> > packages and the E17 chain.
>
> Debian has a thing called PopCon:
>
> http://popcon.debian.org/

This might be a better link to see the sort of stats they are
generating:

http://popcon.debian.org/by_inst

Rich.

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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

Bruno Wolff III <bruno@wolff.to> writes:

> A couple of problems. Which packages are downloaded from mirrors is not
> currently available to Fedora. [...]

Would it be crazy to reorganize the mirror system in such a way that
normally download http requests come to fedoraproject.org, but are
redirected at the http-301 level to mirrors? That way, we'd get to
keep logs of downloads, but not necessarily supply the actual bits?

- FChE
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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:48:15PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I agree to almost everything you wrote.
>>
>> <snip>
>>> - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
>>> opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
>> <snap>
>>
>> *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
>> who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
>> feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
>> maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
>> packages and the E17 chain.
>
> Debian has a thing called PopCon:
>
> http://popcon.debian.org/
>
> Rich.
>

Could smolts.org collect package data as well?

Might be a little outside the scope of the thing...

-Eric
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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:57:11PM +0000, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:48:15PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
>> > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree to almost everything you wrote.
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> > > - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
>> > > opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
>> > <snap>
>> >
>> > *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
>> > who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
>> > feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
>> > maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
>> > packages and the E17 chain.
>>
>> Debian has a thing called PopCon:
>>
>> http://popcon.debian.org/
>
> This might be a better link to see the sort of stats they are
> generating:
>
> http://popcon.debian.org/by_inst

Thank you. Yes, that's something i had in mind. Very nice to have.

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Fight bugs, not FESCo
 

On Mon, 1 Mar 2010, Eric Sandeen wrote:

> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 03:48:15PM +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:
> >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Aaron Faanes <dafrito@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree to almost everything you wrote.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>> - Allow maintainers to see number of downloads by users who have
> >>> opted-in to share that data. If not number, then a simple range.
> >> <snap>
> >>
> >> *That* would be awesome. Because besides of bugs and some guys in IRC
> >> who tell you that they like the software you package, you have no
> >> feedback if your software is in use at all. Of course speaking of
> >> maintainers like me who owns not the big desktops. I have some smaller
> >> packages and the E17 chain.
> >
> > Debian has a thing called PopCon:
> >
> > http://popcon.debian.org/
> >
> > Rich.
> >
>
> Could smolts.org collect package data as well?
>
> Might be a little outside the scope of the thing...
>

People ask this all the time and I said no to everyone except one
developer who finally I guess gave up and didn't do it.

It looks like popcon has like 93000 profiles? Smolt has 1.8 million [1]
and even at that level without package data we have horrible performance
issues. If I were to add packages with my knowledge of db's, smolt would
become useless within a month because the thing would be completely
unavailable.

If someone *really* wants to do this and knows more about databases then I
do, I'll help them through it. It's a high bar though and not to be taken
lightly.

-Mike

[1] Yes I know the stats say 765,000 right now. I was in the middle of a
multi-day db upgrade that took several days longer then I thought and got
caught in our infra freeze for the alpha... It'll be corrected after the
alpha ships :)
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For anyone who wants to attempt this, there is a very basic and
seemingly abandonded popcon for rpm written in perl for opensuse at:

http://gitorious.org/opensuse/popcorn

(although gitorious.org seems down right now from here).

I agree with Mike that you would really need to figure out a efficent
way to store this data and/or cut way down on what it's reporting.

kevin
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