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Old 02-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default No Frozen Rawhide coming soon! New paths on mirrors!

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 11:30 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:07:56 -0800,
> Jesse Keating <jkeating@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > Even though we've been talking about No Frozen Rawhide for quite a
> > while, this will indeed surprise some people, so we will be trying to be
> > extra verbose in what we are doing over the next few days, and always
> > available for questions. Unfortunately I have to step out for a few
> > hours and thus any responses to this email will not be seen by me for a
> > few hours.
>
> Do we need to start using F-13 in cvs immediately after the branch occurs?

For content you wish to be in Fedora 13, you will need to use the F-13
branch when it shows up, yes.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
--
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:33 PM
Mike Chambers
 
Default No Frozen Rawhide coming soon! New paths on mirrors!

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 09:07 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:


> /pub/fedora/linux/development/13/ will become the new path of the
> branched Fedora 13 content. This is where builds from the F-13/ branch
> in CVS will go, after they pass through bodhi as "stable".

So let's take above directory layout. So if I normally mirror rawhide,
is the above dir what I would want to change to, to follow f13 devel and
where the normal everyday package updates (stable ones I mean suspect?)
would happen that are geared for F13? So this dir will also contain the
night builds (isos?) as well as the boot.iso/whateverelse images from
the /images dir are created here nightly and can be installed from like
rawhide used to be during each cycle?
>
> /pub/fedora/linux/updates/testing/13/ will be where potential Fedora 13
> builds go after passing through bodhi as "testing". This is where
> you'll find the latest stuff proposed for freeze break and where testing
> and peer review of these freeze breaks will happen. When a maintainer
> feels enough testing has happened, or enough karma triggers the bodhi
> auto request, the build will be marked "stable" and show up in the
> development/13 tree at the next nightly compose.

So the above dir, would be used like official releases are done, via
package updates go to testing first, then when feel stable (or however
long it goes), they move to the devel/13 dir in the 1st paragraph? And
test images are created here as well?

Guess shall try to summarize what is happening to make sure
understanding what is happening...


1 - Rawhide dir is same, cept at feature freeze it moves on to the next
future fedora version.

2 - Devel Feature Freeze branch (at feature freeze), that stable
packages/builds are built each day, for the current version being worked
on? And also a testing devel feature freeze branch for testing
packages/builds for problems before they hit stable?

3 - Official release branch, currently as is for the officially released
versions, to include stable and testing updates.

If above is correct or at least if not worded right but I am
understanding at least, then have a question or two, but not to argue,
but to understand why or the underlying part to it.

Why couldn't rawhide just be the stable part and just add a testing dir
to it?

Do the maintainers multitask that much to work on updates for official
releases, develop a new release, and start work on the next release?
>From just a user/tester perspective, seems a bit much and too many paths
to follow and keep up with. But hey, if you devel guys/maintainers are
all bout it, whom I to judge? haha.

Anyway, just asking and clarifying (guess you can call this *follow up*)
what is going on, in laymen terms? LOL

(hrm, think I just confused the hell outta myself and maybe others)

--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY

"Best lil town on Earth!"

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Old 02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default No Frozen Rawhide coming soon! New paths on mirrors!

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 16:33 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 09:07 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
>
>
> > /pub/fedora/linux/development/13/ will become the new path of the
> > branched Fedora 13 content. This is where builds from the F-13/ branch
> > in CVS will go, after they pass through bodhi as "stable".
>
> So let's take above directory layout. So if I normally mirror rawhide,
> is the above dir what I would want to change to, to follow f13 devel and
> where the normal everyday package updates (stable ones I mean suspect?)
> would happen that are geared for F13? So this dir will also contain the
> night builds (isos?) as well as the boot.iso/whateverelse images from
> the /images dir are created here nightly and can be installed from like
> rawhide used to be during each cycle?

The nightly live isos would not be in this path. There will be
attempted nightly boot.iso and other parts associated with it though,
and they would be in that path, eg
pub/fedora/linux/development/13/i386/os/images

> >
> > /pub/fedora/linux/updates/testing/13/ will be where potential Fedora 13
> > builds go after passing through bodhi as "testing". This is where
> > you'll find the latest stuff proposed for freeze break and where testing
> > and peer review of these freeze breaks will happen. When a maintainer
> > feels enough testing has happened, or enough karma triggers the bodhi
> > auto request, the build will be marked "stable" and show up in the
> > development/13 tree at the next nightly compose.
>
> So the above dir, would be used like official releases are done, via
> package updates go to testing first, then when feel stable (or however
> long it goes), they move to the devel/13 dir in the 1st paragraph? And
> test images are created here as well?

No test images here. Just repos of packages. Yes to the rest.

>
> Guess shall try to summarize what is happening to make sure
> understanding what is happening...
>
>
> 1 - Rawhide dir is same, cept at feature freeze it moves on to the next
> future fedora version.

Rawhide content is moving from pub/fedora/linux/development/<arch> to
pub/fedora/linux/development/rawhide/<arch>

>
> 2 - Devel Feature Freeze branch (at feature freeze), that stable
> packages/builds are built each day, for the current version being worked
> on? And also a testing devel feature freeze branch for testing
> packages/builds for problems before they hit stable?

I really can't understand this block of words , can you try again?

>
> 3 - Official release branch, currently as is for the officially released
> versions, to include stable and testing updates.

I think you mean the F-13/ directory in source control, and yes, that's
used for all content destined for Fedora 13.

>
> If above is correct or at least if not worded right but I am
> understanding at least, then have a question or two, but not to argue,
> but to understand why or the underlying part to it.
>
> Why couldn't rawhide just be the stable part and just add a testing dir
> to it?

Because we would then have to freeze rawhide production for periods of
time when we stabalize for a release. This causes confusion, and
instability in pent up changes behind the freeze. See the proposal page
for rational why this change is happening.

>
> Do the maintainers multitask that much to work on updates for official
> releases, develop a new release, and start work on the next release?

A single developer, maybe. Different developers working on different
packages for different stages of development, absolutely. Trying to mix
all of those different needs and changes into a single repo has not been
working out so well.

> >From just a user/tester perspective, seems a bit much and too many paths
> to follow and keep up with. But hey, if you devel guys/maintainers are
> all bout it, whom I to judge? haha.

This work was being done before, it just wasn't published anywhere
outside of koji. As a tester you should determine what it is you care
about testing. The stabilizing release to be, or the rapid moving
development strain. That is, test the branched content, or rawhide. If
you pick the branched content, then you should also be testing the
proposed updates to that content. In the past, these got very little
testing outside of the maintainer, they would just request releng tag it
and we hoped it was OK. Now we're going to peer review these more and
have more confidence in these changes as they transition from proposed
freeze breaks to actual freeze breaks that will go into our release.

>
> Anyway, just asking and clarifying (guess you can call this *follow up*)
> what is going on, in laymen terms? LOL
>
> (hrm, think I just confused the hell outta myself and maybe others)
>
> --
> Mike Chambers
> Madisonville, KY
>
> "Best lil town on Earth!"
>


--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
--
devel mailing list
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https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 02-09-2010, 03:56 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default No Frozen Rawhide coming soon! New paths on mirrors!

On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 16:33:54 -0600,
Mike Chambers <mike@miketc.net> wrote:
>
> Do the maintainers multitask that much to work on updates for official
> releases, develop a new release, and start work on the next release?

Yes. I don't know how much, but the idea is that rawhide will continue
to get radicial development, while the next release will more conservative
updates, similar to updates for a stable release.

> >From just a user/tester perspective, seems a bit much and too many paths
> to follow and keep up with. But hey, if you devel guys/maintainers are
> all bout it, whom I to judge? haha.

I think the idea is that normal testing would follow the development release
and not rawhide. Unless you were particular interested in some feature
being developed for the next after release.
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:34 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default No Frozen Rawhide coming soon! New paths on mirrors!

On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 10:56 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote:

> > Do the maintainers multitask that much to work on updates for official
> > releases, develop a new release, and start work on the next release?
>
> Yes. I don't know how much, but the idea is that rawhide will continue
> to get radicial development, while the next release will more conservative
> updates, similar to updates for a stable release.

Most developers probably won't need to differentiate between F-13 and
Rawhide, they can simply push all their changes to both. Only those
planning major changes to sensitive components will need to push those
to Rawhide while maintaining F-13 separately. This isn't any worse than
the previous situation, where you really *couldn't* push anything too
sensitive to make $NEXT_RELEASE in the period between hitting Alpha for
$NEXT_RELEASE, and splitting Rawhide off from $NEXT_RELEASE again close
to release time.

> > >From just a user/tester perspective, seems a bit much and too many paths
> > to follow and keep up with. But hey, if you devel guys/maintainers are
> > all bout it, whom I to judge? haha.
>
> I think the idea is that normal testing would follow the development release
> and not rawhide. Unless you were particular interested in some feature
> being developed for the next after release.

Right, QA will mostly be focused on F-13 and we'd expect most testers to
be doing the same.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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