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Old 01-27-2010, 12:17 PM
Michal Hlavinka
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

Hi all,

in Fedora we have pciutils binaries (lspci and setpci) in /sbin, both of them
use pciutils-libs (/usr/lib/...) and afaik this is how it works for "ages".
I'd like to move them from /sbin to /usr/sbin to have them with the same prefix
as library has. Do you think it can break anything?

A few facts:
1)library is already in /usr/lib and lspci/setpci won't work without it
2)pci.ids (lives in hwdata package) is in /usr/share/hwdata
3)yum remove pciutils will remove only system-config-{firewall,network} as
dependencies

Do you think moving this is a bad idea? I think it should not break anything,
only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because of library in
/usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any complain about it ever.

If there are no complains, I'll move it next week (in rawhide only).

Cheers,
Michal Hlavinka

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Old 01-27-2010, 12:51 PM
Maxim Burgerhout
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

Hi Michal,

A few thoughts on this:

- on RHEL boxes, the dependency on libpci does not exist and lspci is
in /sbin. Therefore, on RHEL boxes, lspci will still work with a
broken /usr partition. I haven't heard of anyone absolutely needing
lspci on a system with a broken /usr partition, but it *is* possible
to use it. Moving it also breaks a pretty long tradition, but that
should matter too much. I actually prefer lspci to be in my path as a
normal user.

- it would be consistent if lsusb would make the same move to
/usr/sbin, if lspci goes that way.

- I noticed Debian puts lspci in /usr/bin. I'm curious about the
reason lspci is to remain in a sbin directory if it's being moved
anyway.

I haven't been involved in Fedora for that long, but I'd like to
participate in this discussion a bit, if that's ok :-)

Regards,

Maxim Burgerhout
maxim@wzzrd.com
----------------
GPG Fingerprint
EB11 5E56 E648 9D99 E8EF 05FB C513 6FD4 1302 B48A



On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 14:17, Michal Hlavinka <mhlavink@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> in Fedora we have pciutils binaries (lspci and setpci) in /sbin, both of them
> use pciutils-libs (/usr/lib/...) and afaik this is how it works for "ages".
> I'd like to move them from /sbin to /usr/sbin to have them with the same prefix
> as library has. Do you think it can break anything?
>
> A few facts:
> 1)library is already in /usr/lib and lspci/setpci won't work without it
> 2)pci.ids (lives in hwdata package) is in /usr/share/hwdata
> 3)yum remove pciutils will remove only system-config-{firewall,network} as
> dependencies
>
> Do you think moving this is a bad idea? I think it should not break anything,
> only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because of library in
> /usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any complain about it ever.
>
> If there are no complains, I'll move it next week (in rawhide only).
>
> Cheers,
> Michal Hlavinka
>
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:44 PM
Michal Hlavinka
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 14:51:15 Maxim Burgerhout wrote:
> Hi Michal,
>
> A few thoughts on this:
>
> - on RHEL boxes, the dependency on libpci does not exist and lspci is
> in /sbin. Therefore, on RHEL boxes, lspci will still work with a
> broken /usr partition. I haven't heard of anyone absolutely needing
> lspci on a system with a broken /usr partition, but it *is* possible
> to use it. Moving it also breaks a pretty long tradition, but that
> should matter too much. I actually prefer lspci to be in my path as a
> normal user.

well, on RHEL5 there is no pciutils-libs, so it does not depend on any library
in /usr/lib, but it depends at least on /usr/share/hwdata/pci.ids and without
it lspci is not that useful

>
> - it would be consistent if lsusb would make the same move to
> /usr/sbin, if lspci goes that way.

on the other hand lsusb requires library from /usr/lib (on RHEL5) so it is in
/sbin but won't work without mounted /usr (and there are also usb.ids)

>
> - I noticed Debian puts lspci in /usr/bin. I'm curious about the
> reason lspci is to remain in a sbin directory if it's being moved
> anyway.

good question

> I haven't been involved in Fedora for that long, but I'd like to
> participate in this discussion a bit, if that's ok :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Maxim Burgerhout
> maxim@wzzrd.com
> ----------------
> GPG Fingerprint
> EB11 5E56 E648 9D99 E8EF 05FB C513 6FD4 1302 B48A
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 14:17, Michal Hlavinka <mhlavink@redhat.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > in Fedora we have pciutils binaries (lspci and setpci) in /sbin, both of
> > them use pciutils-libs (/usr/lib/...) and afaik this is how it works for
> > "ages". I'd like to move them from /sbin to /usr/sbin to have them with
> > the same prefix as library has. Do you think it can break anything?
> >
> > A few facts:
> > 1)library is already in /usr/lib and lspci/setpci won't work without it
> > 2)pci.ids (lives in hwdata package) is in /usr/share/hwdata
> > 3)yum remove pciutils will remove only system-config-{firewall,network}
> > as dependencies
> >
> > Do you think moving this is a bad idea? I think it should not break
> > anything, only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because
> > of library in /usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any
> > complain about it ever.
> >
> > If there are no complains, I'll move it next week (in rawhide only).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michal Hlavinka
> >
> > --
> > devel mailing list
> > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:10 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

Michal Hlavinka (mhlavink@redhat.com) said:
> Do you think moving this is a bad idea? I think it should not break anything,
> only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because of library in
> /usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any complain about it ever.

Furthermore, most all of the information provided by lspci in a no-/usr
recovery situation can be found in /sys if absolutely necessary.

Bill
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:35 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 02:51:15PM +0100, Maxim Burgerhout wrote:
> - I noticed Debian puts lspci in /usr/bin. I'm curious about the
> reason lspci is to remain in a sbin directory if it's being moved
> anyway.

+1, please.

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Old 01-28-2010, 03:20 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

On 01/27/2010 02:17 PM, Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> in Fedora we have pciutils binaries (lspci and setpci) in /sbin, both of them
> use pciutils-libs (/usr/lib/...) and afaik this is how it works for "ages".
> I'd like to move them from /sbin to /usr/sbin to have them with the same prefix
> as library has. Do you think it can break anything?
>
> A few facts:
> 1)library is already in /usr/lib and lspci/setpci won't work without it
> 2)pci.ids (lives in hwdata package) is in /usr/share/hwdata
> 3)yum remove pciutils will remove only system-config-{firewall,network} as
> dependencies
>
> Do you think moving this is a bad idea?
Yes.

The pciutils are valuable tools when trying to recover from situations
when "things go utterly wrong".

> I think it should not break anything,
Is any bootup script using them? If so, then your plan is not applicable.

> only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because of library in
> /usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any complain about it ever.
Well, a separate /usr-partition has never worked on RH-based distros.
You will hardly find any user using a separate /usr partition around here

=> I'd actually recommend you to do the converse of what you are
proposing, i.e. to make
pciutils work without /usr/

> If there are no complains, I'll move it next week (in rawhide only).

Ralf


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Old 01-28-2010, 02:06 PM
Chris Adams
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

Once upon a time, Ralf Corsepius <rc040203@freenet.de> said:
> On 01/27/2010 02:17 PM, Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> > Do you think moving this is a bad idea?
> Yes.
>
> The pciutils are valuable tools when trying to recover from situations
> when "things go utterly wrong".

So what difference does it make where they are (e.g. why do you say this
is a bad idea)? They don't work without other stuff in /usr, so they
should be in /usr.

> > only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because of library in
> > /usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any complain about it ever.
> Well, a separate /usr-partition has never worked on RH-based distros.

I beg to differ; I've been using a separate /usr (mounted read-only
except during maintenance) on RHL, RHEL, and Fedora for at least 13
years.

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Old 01-29-2010, 04:35 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

On 01/28/2010 04:06 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Ralf Corsepius<rc040203@freenet.de> said:
>> On 01/27/2010 02:17 PM, Michal Hlavinka wrote:
>>> Do you think moving this is a bad idea?
>> Yes.
>>
>> The pciutils are valuable tools when trying to recover from situations
>> when "things go utterly wrong".
>
> So what difference does it make where they are (e.g. why do you say this
> is a bad idea)?

Consider having /usr on a separate partition and /usr failing to mount
at bootup and times at system bootup, during which /usr is not yet
available, because it has not been mounted, yet.

These scenarios are the key scenarios to separate those parts of a
distros which need to be considered "essential" (have to go into /lib,
/bin, /sbin) and which to be consider "non-essential".

> They don't work without other stuff in /usr, so they
> should be in /usr.
Rsp. this "other stuff currently in /usr" needs to move, too.

>>> only problem can be with separate /usr partition but because of library in
>>> /usr it would be already broken and I've not seen any complain about it ever.
>> Well, a separate /usr-partition has never worked on RH-based distros.
>
> I beg to differ; I've been using a separate /usr (mounted read-only
> except during maintenance) on RHL, RHEL, and Fedora for at least 13
> years.
Really? The situation definitely has improved over times, but I recall
times, when not even "rpm" was able to run without /usr.

Consider taking out /usr from your fstab and to check how far you can get.
With /sbin/lspci you will be able to check your pci setup, with
/usr/sbin/lspci, you wouldn't.

Should setpci be used somewhere in bootup scripts, you likely won't be
able to boot up your system at all.

Ralf



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Old 01-29-2010, 05:19 AM
Garrett Holmstrom
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Ralf Corsepius <rc040203@freenet.de> wrote:
> Consider taking out /usr from your fstab and to check how far you can get.
> With /sbin/lspci you will be able to check your pci setup, with
> /usr/sbin/lspci, you wouldn't.

False. /sbin/lspci doesn't work without libpci.so, which is in
/usr/lib. Thus /sbin/lspci will fail to load in the absence of /usr.
This is exactly the same as the case you describe for /bin/rpm and
/sbin/setpci.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting your post...

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Old 01-29-2010, 07:32 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Moving lspci and setpci from /sbin to /usr/sbin?

On 01/29/2010 07:19 AM, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Ralf Corsepius<rc040203@freenet.de> wrote:
>> Consider taking out /usr from your fstab and to check how far you can get.
>> With /sbin/lspci you will be able to check your pci setup, with
>> /usr/sbin/lspci, you wouldn't.
>
> False. /sbin/lspci doesn't work without libpci.so, which is in
> /usr/lib. Thus /sbin/lspci will fail to load in the absence of /usr.
> This is exactly the same as the case you describe for /bin/rpm and
> /sbin/setpci.
>
> Maybe I'm just misinterpreting your post...

Somewhat.

You've provided an example of what I consider broken packaging and an
example of a case why Fedora doesn't work without /usr/ being mounted:

Presuming /sbin/lspci is supposed to work without having /usr/ mounted,
then libpci.so.X needs to reside in /lib|/lib64.

Or differently: Everything in /bin and /sbin, must only be dynamically
linked against libraries in /lib|/lib64. The fact lspci is linked
against /usr/{lib|lib64}/libpci.so.X is a defect.

Ralf

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