On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 12:17:02 +0100, Thomas Janssen wrote:

> 2010/1/7 Zing <zing@fastmail.fm>:
>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:02:24 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 15:24:05 +0100
>>> Till Maas <opensource@till.name> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You propose that the repo should be enabled by default if the package
>>>> is installed. I don't like this. This make it a lot easier to break a
>>>> system with Rawhide, if one installs the repo file, e.g. only to be
>>>> able to easily download the src.rpm files with yumdownloader or to
>>>> query it with repoquery, but not to actually install the unsigned
>>>> packages from it.
>>>
>>> How many folks do this? I suppose this is a downside... we could also
>>> ship it with default disabled, so you would need to install and then
>>> enable it.
>>
>> What makes you think these same users won't then also edit and enable
>> rawhide at this point?
>
> Because the type of users we speak of, just enable *blindly* whatever
> repo is available by a *default* installation. Those type of users
> *dont* read at all, neither descriptions coming with a package nor
> websites. So the barrier is much higher for them to break their boxen.

Well, yeah, my question was rhetorical... I guess my point was the
barrier can't get high enough for the class of user we're talking
about. I get a little grumpy when we make changes for these type of
people. sorry.


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On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 22:36:59 +0000 (UTC)
Zing <zing@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> What makes you think these same users won't then also edit and enable
> rawhide at this point? It's not much of a stretch to think these
> seemingly innocent users might see this "rawhide" package, install,
> and then also enable it; in fact, ISTM, a package that they don't
> have that promises some type of newest whizbang gadgets that they're
> missing out on might entice more of this class of user.

Because it won't be on the live media that many of the install from,
or the default groups that would be choosen from the dvd install.

Which is more likely:

1. I am going to enable all the repos I can, oh look, something called
rawhide is already here. I'll just enable it.

2. I am going to enable all the repos I can, ok. Now I am going to
randomly look through the almost 19,000 packages for some that might
have repo files to enable.

> Might I suggest:
>
> $ chattr +i /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-rawhide.repo
>
> just kidding, well, half-kidding

I don't want to lock rawhide in a cabinet in the basement with a
'beware of leopard' sign on it. I just don't want it to be in the same
packet of stuff that everyone who comes into the store gets by
default.

kevin
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Please do so. *Entirely too many general users click-enable rawhide and never even see the comments in the .repo file at all. * They are never presented a warning or anything of the sort.

Split it into an optional package, and anyone that understands what it is will easily be able to install.
*-dj


On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@scrye.com> wrote:

Greetings.



I'd like to propose splitting out

the /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-rawhide.repo file into a

fedora-release-rawhide subpackage which is NOT installed by default or

shipped on the live media.



I wrote up this using the Feature template, but I don't guess it's

really that much of a feature:



https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RawhideRepoSubpackage



(except in that it needs coordination across the distro and docs

updates, etc).



Thoughts?



(either here or the talk page of the above wiki link).



Thanks,



kevin


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On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:37:20 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

> Because it won't be on the live media that many of the install from, or
> the default groups that would be choosen from the dvd install.

Just FYI, since it seems this is happening anyway, I didn't think rawhide
was available from an anaconda installation and it isn't (I checked the
F12 dvd today). NOTE: Now the live cd... that I don't know.


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On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:26:39 +0000 (UTC)
Zing <zing@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:37:20 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
> > Because it won't be on the live media that many of the install
> > from, or the default groups that would be choosen from the dvd
> > install.
>
> Just FYI, since it seems this is happening anyway, I didn't think
> rawhide was available from an anaconda installation and it isn't (I
> checked the F12 dvd today). NOTE: Now the live cd... that I don't
> know.

It's not.

However it's present but disabled once you install with any method
currently. All it takes now to enable it is to go in and
edit /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-rawhide.repo and change 'enabled=0' to
'enabled=1'.

In PackageKit, it should show some text when you enable it, but either
the wording is not strong enough, or people are just clicking through
that warning to enable it anyhow.

kevin
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