Quoting Adam Jackson (ajax@redhat.com):
> On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 11:23 -0600, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > Quoting Adam Jackson (ajax@redhat.com):
> > > On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 11:36 -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote:
> > > > I'd go with "don't let a different app steal focus". Windows for the
> > > > same currently focused app are allowed to. This works pretty well under
> > > > Mac OS X. Might depend on some of the stuff being done by the
> > > > gnome-shell folks though, to be able to group windows together as
> > > > belonging to the same process/application to be able to do it Right
> > > > under a Linux DE...
> > >
> > > Now make that work for the (not uncommon) case of clicking a link in evo
> > > or control-clicking one in gnome-terminal and expecting firefox to pop
> > > forward with that page.
> >
> > And now make that work for the case where firefox decides to take 10
> > secs to start up, so you start in another window, then firefox jumps
> > up and grabs focus. Thanks.
> >
> > There is no case where I want a new window or popup to take focus. Makes
> > for an easy algorithm. (hitting r in mutt is not a problem
>
> There is no case where _you_ want this, sure.

Yes, exactly. You're saying that
1. there are cases where you want a window to pop up
2. it's too complicated to figure out which windows should pop up
3. so windows should always pop up, no point being configurable

and ridiculing us over (2). I'm saying there are no cases where I want
a popup, so we can easily have 2 configurable options: always have windows
pop up and take focus, never have them do so.

That's all.

-serge

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 17:32 +0000, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 01/06/2010 05:00 PM, Adam Jackson wrote:
> > On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 11:36 -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote:
> >> I'd go with "don't let a different app steal focus". Windows for the
> >> same currently focused app are allowed to. This works pretty well under
> >> Mac OS X. Might depend on some of the stuff being done by the
> >> gnome-shell folks though, to be able to group windows together as
> >> belonging to the same process/application to be able to do it Right
> >> under a Linux DE...
> >
> > Now make that work for the (not uncommon) case of clicking a link in evo
> > or control-clicking one in gnome-terminal and expecting firefox to pop
> > forward with that page.
>
> Er, why would you want Firefox to be holding focus when it pops up? I can't
> think of any reason.

To pick an example from my daily life: Someone pastes a bugzilla URL at
me on IRC, and I need to go scroll through it to see what they're
talking about.

- ajax
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:35:03 -0600
"Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Yes, exactly. You're saying that
> 1. there are cases where you want a window to pop up
> 2. it's too complicated to figure out which windows should
> pop up 3. so windows should always pop up, no point being configurable
>
> and ridiculing us over (2). I'm saying there are no cases where I
> want a popup, so we can easily have 2 configurable options: always
> have windows pop up and take focus, never have them do so.
>
> That's all.

You are actually asking for configuration options ?

That's not possible in the new order, where people is actively trimming
out any word^woption that is redundant and deviates from the norm (the
norm being what someone else like not necessarily what works best).

/me bis bis bitter ;-)

--
Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 01:27:07PM -0500, Fulko Hew wrote:

> I'd say... only take focus if its a child/creation of the window currently
> in focus.

You don't want ssh passphrase windows to take focus?

--
Matthew Garrett | mjg59@srcf.ucam.org

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On 01/06/2010 06:50 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 01:27:07PM -0500, Fulko Hew wrote:
>
>> I'd say... only take focus if its a child/creation of the window currently
>> in focus.
>
> You don't want ssh passphrase windows to take focus?

Hell, no! :-)

Andrew.

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

Quoting Simo Sorce (ssorce@redhat.com):
> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:35:03 -0600
> "Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, exactly. You're saying that
> > 1. there are cases where you want a window to pop up
> > 2. it's too complicated to figure out which windows should
> > pop up 3. so windows should always pop up, no point being configurable
> >
> > and ridiculing us over (2). I'm saying there are no cases where I
> > want a popup, so we can easily have 2 configurable options: always
> > have windows pop up and take focus, never have them do so.
> >
> > That's all.
>
> You are actually asking for configuration options ?

Haha, no I was just answering his question ("come up with a way to
identify windows to not pop up"). When I get annoyed enough by it I'll
either hack it in myself, or finally hack zoom into evilwm to use with
xcompmgr and really be happy.

> That's not possible in the new order, where people is actively trimming
> out any word^woption that is redundant and deviates from the norm (the
> norm being what someone else like not necessarily what works best).
>
> /me bis bis bitter ;-)

Shut up and rm that libfoo.a

-serge

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 12:35 -0600, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> Quoting Adam Jackson (ajax@redhat.com):
> > On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 11:23 -0600, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > > There is no case where I want a new window or popup to take focus. Makes
> > > for an easy algorithm. (hitting r in mutt is not a problem
> >
> > There is no case where _you_ want this, sure.
>
> Yes, exactly. You're saying that
> 1. there are cases where you want a window to pop up
> 2. it's too complicated to figure out which windows should pop up
> 3. so windows should always pop up, no point being configurable
>
> and ridiculing us over (2). I'm saying there are no cases where I want
> a popup, so we can easily have 2 configurable options: always have windows
> pop up and take focus, never have them do so.

Ahh, I see the misunderstanding here: I'm not arguing point three. I'm
not even really arguing point 2, as you phrased it; it's not _too_
complicated, it's merely complicated.

I'm arguing that there exists an implementation that tries to prevent
focus stealing, and trying to illustrate why that's a hard problem. And
thus, why the OP's RFE as stated, is either not achievable, or not
desirable.

I mean, in some sense, this is all academic anyway. It's trivial to
write an X app that steals focus, regardless of what the window manager
attempts to implement. But even assuming you're running relatively
well-behaved applications, it's still not an easy problem.

- ajax
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 13:27 -0500, Fulko Hew wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Adam Jackson <ajax@redhat.com> wrote:
> There is no case where _you_ want this, sure.
>
> I'd say... only take focus if its a child/creation of the window
> currently in focus.

"creation of" is not something that's particularly well defined in X.
Child windows are clipped to (wholly contained within) their parent, so
in the evolution example from earlier, the compose window is a child of
the root window, not of the mailbox view window. So at window creation
time, there's no obvious relationship between the compose and mailbox
windows.

They do happen to have the same WM_CLASS and WM_CLIENT_LEADER window
properties. But that still only addresses automatic focus changes
within a single application. Automatic focus changes across apps is
probably desirable; otherwise, nothing you launch from the gnome panel
will launch focused, which is rather absurd.

- ajax

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

Quoting Adam Jackson (ajax@redhat.com):
> On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 12:35 -0600, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > Quoting Adam Jackson (ajax@redhat.com):
> > > On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 11:23 -0600, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > > > There is no case where I want a new window or popup to take focus. Makes
> > > > for an easy algorithm. (hitting r in mutt is not a problem
> > >
> > > There is no case where _you_ want this, sure.
> >
> > Yes, exactly. You're saying that
> > 1. there are cases where you want a window to pop up
> > 2. it's too complicated to figure out which windows should pop up
> > 3. so windows should always pop up, no point being configurable
> >
> > and ridiculing us over (2). I'm saying there are no cases where I want
> > a popup, so we can easily have 2 configurable options: always have windows
> > pop up and take focus, never have them do so.
>
> Ahh, I see the misunderstanding here: I'm not arguing point three. I'm
> not even really arguing point 2, as you phrased it; it's not _too_
> complicated, it's merely complicated.
>
> I'm arguing that there exists an implementation that tries to prevent
> focus stealing, and trying to illustrate why that's a hard problem. And
> thus, why the OP's RFE as stated, is either not achievable, or not
> desirable.
>
> I mean, in some sense, this is all academic anyway. It's trivial to
> write an X app that steals focus, regardless of what the window manager

Haha - yes, that's why it's tough to care much, there are certain apps
I'm forced to run that will always steal focus sigh.

> attempts to implement. But even assuming you're running relatively
> well-behaved applications, it's still not an easy problem.

-serge

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:53:21 -0500, Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:00 AM, nodata <lsof@nodata.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'd like to suggest an enhancement for Fedora 13: nothing should ever
>> steal focus from the window I am typing in. If I am typing in a shell
>> window, or in a word processor, or an e-mail, nothing should ever take
>> keyboard focus away from that window.
>>
>> Clearly I'm missing something, otherwise we would have this, hence the
>> posting to the list
>
> Firefox's focus stealing constantly drives me nuts. Trigger something

Sadly this mind raging feature has infected SeaMonkey 2.0 now. I used to
be able to open links in tabs in the background from other apps, now it
happily and proudly pops to the foreground and steals focus. sigh.

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list