Does gdm entirely restart when you logout? I don't believe so. I suspect
you get the same result by killing X then going back to that runlevel
but for many many many users a reboot is going to be less error-prone.
Isn't there gdm-restart for that purpose? I don't really know, but I'm
just confused as to why a program that lets me login requires a reboot...
I *really* don't want to sound whiny or anything like that, or be one of
those that compare us to windows... but one of my favorite things from
years ago was that I only had to reboot with a new kernel. Now I feel
like I reboot every update. I mean, even the ibus stuff was stating I
needed a reboot. As far as I know that is used for alternative language
input, which I don't use, fair enough it doesn't know that. But what
about it needs a reboot?
I'm also curious why gdm is still running once I've logged in. I see the
user-switch stuff but I'm just wondering. I mean rebooting isn't the end
of the world but man it sure happens a lot now
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12-15-2009, 04:08 PM
Nikola Pajkovsky
packages requiring me to reboot...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Dne 15.12.2009 18:00, Nathanael D. Noblet napsal(a):
> On 12/15/2009 09:54 AM, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
>> Does gdm entirely restart when you logout? I don't believe so. I suspect
>> you get the same result by killing X then going back to that runlevel
>> but for many many many users a reboot is going to be less error-prone.
>
> Isn't there gdm-restart for that purpose? I don't really know, but I'm
> just confused as to why a program that lets me login requires a reboot...
>
> I *really* don't want to sound whiny or anything like that, or be one of
> those that compare us to windows... but one of my favorite things from
> years ago was that I only had to reboot with a new kernel. Now I feel
> like I reboot every update. I mean, even the ibus stuff was stating I
> needed a reboot. As far as I know that is used for alternative language
> input, which I don't use, fair enough it doesn't know that. But what
> about it needs a reboot?
>
> I'm also curious why gdm is still running once I've logged in. I see the
> user-switch stuff but I'm just wondering. I mean rebooting isn't the end
> of the world but man it sure happens a lot now
>
+1
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Mobile: +420 777 895 064 ^`~'^
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12-15-2009, 04:38 PM
Seth Vidal
packages requiring me to reboot...
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009, Nathanael D. Noblet wrote:
On 12/15/2009 09:54 AM, Seth Vidal wrote:
Does gdm entirely restart when you logout? I don't believe so. I suspect
you get the same result by killing X then going back to that runlevel
but for many many many users a reboot is going to be less error-prone.
Isn't there gdm-restart for that purpose? I don't really know, but I'm just
confused as to why a program that lets me login requires a reboot...
I *really* don't want to sound whiny or anything like that, or be one of
those that compare us to windows... but one of my favorite things from years
ago was that I only had to reboot with a new kernel. Now I feel like I reboot
every update. I mean, even the ibus stuff was stating I needed a reboot. As
far as I know that is used for alternative language input, which I don't use,
fair enough it doesn't know that. But what about it needs a reboot?
I'm also curious why gdm is still running once I've logged in. I see the
user-switch stuff but I'm just wondering. I mean rebooting isn't the end of
the world but man it sure happens a lot now
I don't have a good answer. You might want to ask on the
fedora-desktop-list and/or in a bug for that component. I was just trying
to explain the specific behavior you saw.
Now, having said that - how would you feel if the updater stopped you
before it ran and said "you're running an app I'm trying to update, please
close the app so I can update it". Would that be a pain or ok?
-sv
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12-15-2009, 04:40 PM
Richard Hughes
packages requiring me to reboot...
2009/12/15 Seth Vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org>:
> Now, having said that - how would you feel if the updater stopped you before
> it ran and said "you're running an app I'm trying to update, please close
> the app so I can update it". Would that be a pain or ok?
That's exactly the PackageKit functionality I've added for packages
like firefox, that explode internally when they get updated. The trick
it to offer to close them down, and bring them back when done.
Richard.
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12-15-2009, 04:40 PM
Stefan Schulze Frielinghaus
packages requiring me to reboot...
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 10:00 -0700, Nathanael D. Noblet wrote:
> On 12/15/2009 09:54 AM, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
> > Does gdm entirely restart when you logout? I don't believe so. I suspect
> > you get the same result by killing X then going back to that runlevel
> > but for many many many users a reboot is going to be less error-prone.
>
> Isn't there gdm-restart for that purpose? I don't really know, but I'm
> just confused as to why a program that lets me login requires a reboot...
>
> I *really* don't want to sound whiny or anything like that, or be one of
> those that compare us to windows... but one of my favorite things from
> years ago was that I only had to reboot with a new kernel. Now I feel
> like I reboot every update. I mean, even the ibus stuff was stating I
> needed a reboot. As far as I know that is used for alternative language
> input, which I don't use, fair enough it doesn't know that. But what
> about it needs a reboot?
Because often you cannot tell if a reboot is required or not. Consider a
shared library which gets updated. If the old version of the library
contains a security bug and you have already say ten apps running using
that library, then after the update of the library the apps will still
use the old buggy library. Only after closing and restarting the
particular apps will help. From a novice point of view you cannot expect
that he/she knows what app to close, so a restart is probably the
easiest and safest way.
Another problem may raise up if you want to update daemons. During the
update the daemon shouldn't be restarted because it might be a critical
service I'm using right now. Therefore, having a convenient way for
novices is just to say "please restart". For all others, just check what
gets updated and then decide on your own if you really need to restart
the whole system or only some apps/services and then klick on "hide this
icon" ;-)
Coming back to your fist post:
> Wouldn't it be sufficient to logout?
In some cases I would say so, but not in all.
cheers,
Stefan
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12-15-2009, 04:41 PM
"Frank Murphy (Frankly3D)"
packages requiring me to reboot...
On 15/12/09 16:50, Nathanael D. Noblet wrote:
> Hello,
> I feel like there are an increasing number of packages requiring a
> system reboot. I'm wondering why. The following updates were installed
> today, and required a full system reboot. I can't seem to find any
> package in the list that I can conceivably see requiring a reboot, is it
> that PK doesn't have the concept of X logout vs reboot? Is it a bug in
> the packaging or PK or is there anything I can do/file to improve the
> situation?
>
>
Personally,
I just update, ignore the "restart".
Shut-down going to bed.
Or keep the updates,
till bedtime.
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UTF_8 Encoded.
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Now, having said that - how would you feel if the updater stopped you before
it ran and said "you're running an app I'm trying to update, please close
the app so I can update it". Would that be a pain or ok?
That's exactly the PackageKit functionality I've added for packages
like firefox, that explode internally when they get updated. The trick
it to offer to close them down, and bring them back when done.
this is what colin and I talked about at fudcon in toronto. I just added
some code to yum so it returns to you a list of all pkgs on the system
that own a file that is currently open/used in a running process.
should make that part of your lookup easier.
YumBase.rpmdb.return_running_packages()
-sv
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12-15-2009, 04:43 PM
Colin Walters
packages requiring me to reboot...
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/12/15 Seth Vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org>:
>> Now, having said that - how would you feel if the updater stopped you before
>> it ran and said "you're running an app I'm trying to update, please close
>> the app so I can update it". Would that be a pain or ok?
>
> That's exactly the PackageKit functionality I've added for packages
> like firefox, that explode internally when they get updated. The trick
> it to offer to close them down, and bring them back when done.
>
This exists? Can you point me to the code?
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12-15-2009, 05:01 PM
"Otto Haliburton"
packages requiring me to reboot...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list-
> bounces@redhat.com] On Behalf Of Colin Walters
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:44
> To: Development discussions related to Fedora
> Subject: Re: packages requiring me to reboot...
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Richard Hughes <hughsient@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 2009/12/15 Seth Vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org>:
> >> Now, having said that - how would you feel if the updater stopped you
> before
> >> it ran and said "you're running an app I'm trying to update, please
> close
> >> the app so I can update it". Would that be a pain or ok?
> >
> > That's exactly the PackageKit functionality I've added for packages
> > like firefox, that explode internally when they get updated. The trick
> > it to offer to close them down, and bring them back when done.
> >
> This exists? Can you point me to the code?
>
> --
I am not sure what the argument is, factually there are packages that have
files open, locks and etc. that need to be shutdown to update, if they are
running and you replace the executable, doesn't mean that the memory image
is replaced. It is quicker and simpler to just reboot, also the list of the
packages that cause you to reboot is probably longer than the ones that are
flagged. I think that a reboot should be made whether necessary or not,
clears up a lot of grief.
> fedora-devel-list mailing list
> fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
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12-15-2009, 05:29 PM
Bill Nottingham
packages requiring me to reboot...
Nathanael D. Noblet (nathanael@gnat.ca) said:
> I'm also curious why gdm is still running once I've logged in.
When you start a display manager, you start an X server; the display
manager then draws on this. Then, when you log in, you have to
stat an user session, as the authenticated user (which has a connection
to the X server, so it can know when it goes away.)
You also have to tell the init daemon which process it's supposed to
be tracking, so it can respawn it when it exits.
Having that process be the gdm daemon (which forks and execs both
the X server and the user session) is arguably a lot simpler than
trying to architect it such that the daemon goes away entirely and
init then ends up tracking either the X serve or the user session.
Bill
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