On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:29:25 -0500
Bill Nottingham <notting@redhat.com> wrote:

> Nathanael D. Noblet (nathanael@gnat.ca) said:
> > I'm also curious why gdm is still running once I've logged in.
>
> When you start a display manager, you start an X server; the display
> manager then draws on this. Then, when you log in, you have to
> stat an user session, as the authenticated user (which has a connection
> to the X server, so it can know when it goes away.)
>
> You also have to tell the init daemon which process it's supposed to
> be tracking, so it can respawn it when it exits.
>
> Having that process be the gdm daemon (which forks and execs both
> the X server and the user session) is arguably a lot simpler than
> trying to architect it such that the daemon goes away entirely and
> init then ends up tracking either the X serve or the user session.
>
> Bill
>
>

Isn't GDM just doing a wait(2) on the user-session?

Clark
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Am 2009-12-15 17:50, schrieb Nathanael D. Noblet:

Hello,
I feel like there are an increasing number of packages requiring a
system reboot. I'm wondering why. The following updates were installed
today, and required a full system reboot. I can't seem to find any
package in the list that I can conceivably see requiring a reboot, is it
that PK doesn't have the concept of X logout vs reboot? Is it a bug in
the packaging or PK or is there anything I can do/file to improve the
situation?

Dec 15 09:07:21 Updated: glib2-2.22.3-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:23 Updated: mysql-libs-5.1.40-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:23 Updated: gpm-libs-1.20.6-9.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:25 Updated: mysql-5.1.40-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:28 Updated: PyQt4-4.6.2-5.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:32 Updated: mysql-server-5.1.40-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:34 Updated: gpm-1.20.6-9.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:37 Updated: 1:tk-8.5.7-3.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:37 Updated: mpfr-2.4.1-5.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:39 Updated: foomatic-4.0.3-5.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:40 Updated: mysql-embedded-5.1.40-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:41 Updated: glib2-2.22.3-1.fc12.i686
Dec 15 09:07:45 Updated: gtk2-2.18.4-3.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:58 Updated: 1:gdm-2.28.1-25.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:58 Updated: ibus-libs-1.2.0.20091204-2.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:07:59 Updated: imsettings-libs-0.107.4-4.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:02 Updated: glib2-devel-2.22.3-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:07 Updated: yelp-2.28.1-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:10 Updated: f-spot-0.6.1.5-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:13 Updated: 1:xscreensaver-base-5.10-4.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:13 Updated: 1:xscreensaver-gl-base-5.10-4.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:16 Updated: gtk2-devel-2.18.4-3.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:25 Updated: totem-2.28.4-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:25 Updated: totem-nautilus-2.28.4-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:27 Updated: 1:xscreensaver-gl-extras-5.10-4.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:29 Updated: 1:xscreensaver-extras-5.10-4.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:34 Updated: imsettings-0.107.4-4.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:34 Updated: 1:gdm-user-switch-applet-2.28.1-25.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:35 Updated: 1:gdm-plugin-fingerprint-2.28.1-25.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:35 Updated: totem-mozplugin-2.28.4-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:37 Updated: python-reportlab-2.3-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:38 Updated: jna-3.2.4-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:38 Updated: memcached-1.4.4-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:38 Updated: less-436-3.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:40 Updated: cscope-15.6-6.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:40 Updated: xorg-x11-drv-mouse-1.5.0-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:40 Updated: f-spot-screensaver-0.6.1.5-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:46 Updated: gtk2-devel-docs-2.18.4-3.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:46 Updated: gpm-devel-1.20.6-9.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:46 Updated: liveusb-creator-3.9-1.fc12.noarch
Dec 15 09:08:48 Updated: mysql-devel-5.1.40-1.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:53 Updated: etoys-4.0.2339-1.fc12.noarch
Dec 15 09:08:59 Updated: ibus-1.2.0.20091204-2.fc12.x86_64
Dec 15 09:08:59 Updated: ibus-gtk-1.2.0.20091204-2.fc12.x86_64

Wouldn't it be sufficient to logout? Is it a bug?



I'd like for the icon that reboots to be more difficult to click on. Or
to confirm. Or anything.


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On 12/15/2009 12:42 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:

> this is what colin and I talked about at fudcon in toronto. I just added
> some code to yum so it returns to you a list of all pkgs on the system
> that own a file that is currently open/used in a running process.
>
> should make that part of your lookup easier.
>
> YumBase.rpmdb.return_running_packages()
>

This seems to be compounding the problem rather than try9ing to avoid
it all together.

As an alternate suggestion:

It may make a lot more sense, to instead install apps in a shadow
directory (named by version for example) with the usual spot being a
link to the right place. When installing a new one simply install it in
the shadow area and flip the link. The existing running app will see
home base in the same place and have zero problems.

The last part is a clean up phase which could be deferred to reboot
or perhaps something a little more clever.

firefox will work perfectly if done this way for example.

gene

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On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 12:01 -0600, Otto Haliburton wrote:

> I am not sure what the argument is, factually there are packages that have
> files open, locks and etc. that need to be shutdown to update, if they are
> running and you replace the executable, doesn't mean that the memory image
> is replaced. It is quicker and simpler to just reboot, also the list of the
> packages that cause you to reboot is probably longer than the ones that are
> flagged. I think that a reboot should be made whether necessary or not,
> clears up a lot of grief.

Wow. That's twice today that the suggestion of forcing the user to
reboot whether they like it or not has been made. What a long way we've
come since the early days Personally, I think a dialog box is pretty
simple for most users (no forcing, just persuasion), and allows those
who know what they're doing to ignore it. And obviously reducing the
number of times you ask to just absolute necessity is a win-win.

But please, no more forced reboot suggestions. This isn't MSFT.

Jon.


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2009/12/15 Colin Walters <walters@verbum.org>:
> This exists? *Can you point me to the code?

I only finished this just this morning.

It's just been pushed to git master. You want to see this commit
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/packagekit/commit/?id=66d3fc26054abd528ee18017d9c67edb6400f239
for the juicy config bits.

The UI isn't very pretty at the moment (it just fails with an update
error) but I'll work on something a little bit more user friendly.

Richard.

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2009/12/16 Mail Lists <lists@sapience.com>:
> * The last part is a clean up phase which could be deferred to reboot
> or perhaps something a little more clever.

The devil is in the detail

Richard.

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So again today, I see some updates two of which require a full system
reboot.


nfs-utils and ibus-rawcode. My system seriously needs to be shut down
for those to be properly updated? This is what I don't get. nfs-utils
never got a system reboot before, it doesn't get one on RHEL/Centos
boxes... What requires a reboot here? Again, I don't want the tone of
this email to come off as anger, rude or whatever, mainly I'm wondering
why so many packages require a reboot, why isn't nfs-utils just
restarting any services it has or that depend on it if needed? Is that
not reliable?


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On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, Nathanael D. Noblet wrote:


So again today, I see some updates two of which require a full system reboot.

nfs-utils and ibus-rawcode. My system seriously needs to be shut down for
those to be properly updated? This is what I don't get. nfs-utils never got a
system reboot before, it doesn't get one on RHEL/Centos boxes... What
requires a reboot here? Again, I don't want the tone of this email to come
off as anger, rude or whatever, mainly I'm wondering why so many packages
require a reboot, why isn't nfs-utils just restarting any services it has or
that depend on it if needed? Is that not reliable?





you're an experienced user? You're comfortable knowing what does and what
does not require a reboot? Then why are you using PK?


Disable pk and do the updates directly via yum.

Bam - no more requests to reboot.

-sv

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On 12/16/2009 11:43 AM, Seth Vidal wrote:
> you're an experienced user? You're comfortable knowing what does and
> what does not require a reboot? Then why are you using PK?
>
> Disable pk and do the updates directly via yum.
>
> Bam - no more requests to reboot.

I get what you're saying, and it's kindof a fair point, but there's also
some utility to having the system automatically, proactively notify you
of updates.

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nature of reality.

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On Wed, 16 Dec 2009, Peter Jones wrote:


On 12/16/2009 11:43 AM, Seth Vidal wrote:

you're an experienced user? You're comfortable knowing what does and
what does not require a reboot? Then why are you using PK?

Disable pk and do the updates directly via yum.

Bam - no more requests to reboot.


I get what you're saying, and it's kindof a fair point, but there's also
some utility to having the system automatically, proactively notify you
of updates.


And you can do that. Just don't have pk DO the update.

There are lots of ways to get notifications of updates not using PK in the
system.


And again, we're not talking about for the default everyday user.

we're talking about the experienced user who is comfortable knowing what
does and does not need a reboot.


All I'm saying is - we've not taken away any option, the experienced user
can do what they want.


-sv

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