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Paulo Cavalcanti 11-29-2009 01:58 PM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
Hi,

I made a clean install of Fedora 12, and pulseaudio seems to be behaving
completely different. Any mixer control I have (master, pcm, front ,,,) affects
the pulse volume slider (looking at pavucontrol). In the past, pulse only controlled PCM, I guess.


But the worst point is that there is no more application volume memory.
All applications when launched are at full volume, and this is really annoying ...

Is this a kind of new feature? Is it configurable?


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drago01 11-29-2009 02:01 PM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Paulo Cavalcanti <promac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I made a clean install of Fedora 12, and pulseaudio seems to be behaving
> completely different. Any mixer control I have (master, pcm, front ,,,)
> affects
> the pulse volume slider (looking at pavucontrol). In the past, pulse only
> controlled PCM, I guess.

This is a feature, not a bug.

> But the worst point is that there is no more application volume memory.
> All applications when launched are at full volume, and this is really
> annoying ...

This sounds like a bug.... (works for me though)

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Paulo Cavalcanti 11-29-2009 02:53 PM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 1:01 PM, drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Paulo Cavalcanti <promac@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Hi,

>

> I made a clean install of Fedora 12, and pulseaudio seems to be behaving

> completely different. Any mixer control I have (master, pcm, front ,,,)

> affects

> the pulse volume slider (looking at pavucontrol). In the past, pulse only

> controlled PCM, I guess.



This is a feature, not a bug.



> But the worst point is that there is no more application volume memory.

> All applications when launched are at full volume, and this is really

> annoying ...



This sounds like a bug.... (works for me though)



I have two sound cards installed: one onboard and another PCI.

The PCI, the one I do no use very much, works fine. The onboard
is the one which does not save the volumes. Every time I call an application

its master and pcm volume go to the maximum (I see the sliders going to the top
in alsamixer).

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Jud Craft 11-29-2009 03:26 PM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
> I have two sound cards installed: one onboard and another PCI.
>
> The PCI, the one I do no use very much, works fine. The onboard
> is the one which does not save the volumes. Every time I call an application
> its master and pcm volume go to the maximum (I see the sliders going to the
> top
> in alsamixer).

This has been addressed by the PulseAudio creator. You can read more
about it here, see the "PCM is always 100%":

http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/PulseAudioStoleMyVolumes

In my lay explanation, Pulse manages the application volumes behind
the scenes. It still remembers their values, but it doesn't use
Alsamixer to set them. It tries to use the full volume range of the
hardware (for better volume scaling), so it keeps every other software
linux volume control at full volume, and scales itself internally.

Otherwise, ALSA would say "you can only use the lower 50% of the sound
range of this device". (PCM at 50%). Now Pulse decides internally
what volume level is best.

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Kevin Kofler 11-29-2009 06:26 PM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
Paulo Cavalcanti wrote:
> But the worst point is that there is no more application volume memory.
> All applications when launched are at full volume, and this is really
> annoying ...

Looks like the "flat volumes" "feature":
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01810.html

Kevin Kofler

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Paulo Cavalcanti 11-30-2009 08:05 AM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Jud Craft <craftjml@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have two sound cards installed: one onboard and another PCI.

>

> The PCI, the one I do no use very much, works fine. The onboard

> is the one which does not save the volumes. Every time I call an application

> its master and pcm volume go to the maximum (I see the sliders going to the

> top

> in alsamixer).



This has been addressed by the PulseAudio creator. *You can read more

about it here, see the "PCM is always 100%":



http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/PulseAudioStoleMyVolumes



In my lay explanation, Pulse manages the application volumes behind

the scenes. *It still remembers their values, but it doesn't use

Alsamixer to set them. *It tries to use the full volume range of the

hardware (for better volume scaling), so it keeps every other software

linux volume control at full volume, and scales itself internally.



Otherwise, ALSA would say "you can only use the lower 50% of the sound

range of this device". *(PCM at 50%). *Now Pulse decides internally

what volume level is best.





Thanks for the explanation.

At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes:

xmms, mplayer and audacious.

The solution is using the alsa plugin, and not the pulse plugin in these cases.


Some others work fine, such as rhythmbox, amarok, vlc, and kradio4.

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Michal Schmidt 11-30-2009 08:38 AM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a):
> Thanks for the explanation.
>
> At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes:
>
> xmms, mplayer and audacious.

Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the
volume themselves.

> The solution is using the alsa plugin, and not the pulse plugin in
> these cases.
>
> Some others work fine, such as rhythmbox, amarok, vlc, and kradio4.

Michal

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Michael Schwendt 11-30-2009 09:12 AM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote:

> Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a):
> > Thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes:
> >
> > xmms, mplayer and audacious.
>
> Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the
> volume themselves.

It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream developers
feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to do to get
something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have dropped their
"pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since they were of the
impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu users currently feel
punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of fixes [for volume issues
in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for every new song], the driver was
restored again for Audacious 2.2 development. With more recent changes in
Pulse Audio, it seems, more changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1
cannot reflect external volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume
slider cannot move for volume level changes made with external tools.
Only the next release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such
as a bug in alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too).

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Michal Schmidt 11-30-2009 09:36 AM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:12:38 +0100 Michael Schwendt napsal(a):
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote:
>
> > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a):
> > > Thanks for the explanation.
> > >
> > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes:
> > >
> > > xmms, mplayer and audacious.
> >
> > Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the
> > volume themselves.
>
> It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream
> developers feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to
> do to get something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have
> dropped their "pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since
> they were of the impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu
> users currently feel punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of
> fixes [for volume issues in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for
> every new song], the driver was restored again for Audacious 2.2
> development. With more recent changes in Pulse Audio, it seems, more
> changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1 cannot reflect external
> volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume slider cannot move
> for volume level changes made with external tools. Only the next
> release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such as a bug in
> alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too).

Thanks for the explanation. Before I saw your reply, I played with
audacious-plugins and made a kludge to prevent it from forcing 100 %
volume on startup. It probably breaks something else, I haven't really
tested it too much.

Notice that the documentation for pa_stream_connect_playback strongly
recommends passing NULL as volume.

Index: audacious-plugins-fedora-2.1/src/pulse_audio/pulse_audio.c
================================================== =================
--- audacious-plugins-fedora-2.1.orig/src/pulse_audio/pulse_audio.c
+++ audacious-plugins-fedora-2.1/src/pulse_audio/pulse_audio.c
@@ -666,7 +666,7 @@ static int pulse_open(AFormat fmt, int r
pa_stream_set_write_callback(stream, stream_request_cb, NULL);
pa_stream_set_latency_update_callback(stream, stream_latency_update_cb, NULL);

- if (pa_stream_connect_playback(stream, NULL, NULL, PA_STREAM_INTERPOLATE_TIMING|PA_STREAM_AUTO_TIMING _UPDATE, &volume, NULL) < 0) {
+ if (pa_stream_connect_playback(stream, NULL, NULL, PA_STREAM_INTERPOLATE_TIMING|PA_STREAM_AUTO_TIMING _UPDATE, NULL, NULL) < 0) {
AUDDBG("Failed to connect stream: %s", pa_strerror(pa_context_errno(context)));
goto unlock_and_fail;
}
@@ -715,6 +715,7 @@ static int pulse_open(AFormat fmt, int r
}

pa_operation_unref(o);
+#if 0
/* set initial volume */
if (!(o = pa_context_set_sink_input_volume(context, pa_stream_get_index(stream), &volume, NULL, NULL))) {
g_warning("pa_context_set_sink_input_volume() failed: %s", pa_strerror(pa_context_errno(context)));
@@ -725,6 +726,7 @@ static int pulse_open(AFormat fmt, int r
pa_threaded_mainloop_wait(mainloop);
}
pa_operation_unref(o);
+#endif

do_trigger = 0;
written = 0;

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Bastien Nocera 11-30-2009 09:43 AM

Pulseaudio in F12
 
On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 11:36 +0100, Michal Schmidt wrote:
> Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:12:38 +0100 Michael Schwendt napsal(a):
> > On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:38:15 +0100, Michal wrote:
> >
> > > Dne Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:05:28 -0200 Paulo Cavalcanti napsal(a):
> > > > Thanks for the explanation.
> > > >
> > > > At least 3 applications are not restoring the volumes:
> > > >
> > > > xmms, mplayer and audacious.
> > >
> > > Interesting. Maybe these programs try to be too clever and force the
> > > volume themselves.
> >
> > It's not an attempt at being "too clever", but several upstream
> > developers feel lost in what they have to do or what they have not to
> > do to get something right. Temporarily, Audacious devlopers have
> > dropped their "pulse_audio" driver (originally from XMMS) even, since
> > they were of the impression that "it didn't work anyway". Ubuntu
> > users currently feel punished with Pulse Audio. With a first bunch of
> > fixes [for volume issues in Fedora 12 Rawhide, volume decreased for
> > every new song], the driver was restored again for Audacious 2.2
> > development. With more recent changes in Pulse Audio, it seems, more
> > changes are necessary. But Audacious 2.1 cannot reflect external
> > volume level changes in its UI anyway. Its volume slider cannot move
> > for volume level changes made with external tools. Only the next
> > release can do that, and it suffers from new bugs (such as a bug in
> > alsa-lib that will require an update in Fedora, too).
>
> Thanks for the explanation. Before I saw your reply, I played with
> audacious-plugins and made a kludge to prevent it from forcing 100 %
> volume on startup. It probably breaks something else, I haven't really
> tested it too much.
>
> Notice that the documentation for pa_stream_connect_playback strongly
> recommends passing NULL as volume.

This looks correct, you're never supposed to restore volume yourself
when using PulseAudio.

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