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Old 11-20-2008, 03:28 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

Josh Boyer (jwboyer@gmail.com) said:
> >I'm not sure this scales across 5000 packages. So it would be good
> >to have at least *something* in the guidelines.
>
> You're assuming that all 5000 packages need fixing. I doubt that's
> the case.

No, but it's not something you can easily automate (unlike
FTBFS, or broken deps.)

> Also, the bugs need to be filed either way. So the scaling argument
> still applies and adding a guideline for this is really just unneeded
> work...

If you get it fixed in the guidelines and at the review point, you
eliminate having to scan & file all those bugs later - always fix
issues as early as possible.

Bill

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Old 11-20-2008, 03:29 PM
Richard Hughes
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 08:17 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> The summary is used by many GUI tools. Our main supported GUI tool
> makes the summary more prominent than the package name because it is
> often a better description for the end user to make a decision about
> installing. To make the user's experience better here, we try to have
> short, succinct summaries that don't repeat information in the name.

Works for me.

Richard.


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Old 11-20-2008, 03:38 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

Richard Hughes wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 08:17 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>> The summary is used by many GUI tools. Our main supported GUI tool
>> makes the summary more prominent than the package name because it is
>> often a better description for the end user to make a decision about
>> installing. To make the user's experience better here, we try to have
>> short, succinct summaries that don't repeat information in the name.
>
> Works for me.
>
Okay. Please fill in other examples so packagers and reviewers can get
a feel for what to cut and when it's good to depart from the general
rules and put it on the wiki under PackagingDrafts. Then add it to the
list of things for the Packaging Committee to discuss.

We can link it from this portion of the full Guidelines:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Summary_and_description

-Toshio

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Old 11-20-2008, 03:46 PM
Michal Hlavinka
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

Richard Hughes wrote:

The packaging guidelines have a single sentence on package summaries:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Summary_and_description

"The summary should be a short and concise description of the package"

Broken packages are a problem as PackageKit shows the summary first (in
bold) in preference to the package name. This is by design.

Quite a lot of packages have summary text that is overly verbose, and
this makes the GUI and output from pkcon look rubbish.

For instance, I've filed
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=472365 where the oggconvert
package has a summary of:

"A simple GNOME application that converts media files to Free formats"

First, we don't need to say it's an application, not that it's GNOME
specific. Surely something like this would be better:

"Simple media converter"
or
"Simple conversion to free media formats"
or
"Simple media converter using free formats"

The guidelines also don't say if it should be Title Case or if the
summary should include the application name. If we come to some
guidelines (or working practices) on this email thread, I'll update the
wiki page with more details.

It would also be a good idea to have a few "shining examples" for people
to copy when creating new packages. When we've done that, I'll start
filing bugs.

Thanks,

Richard.

Guidelines? Maybe, but...

If PackageKit has some troubles with displaying long summaries, you
should fill bug against PackageKit not against every package with long
summary


Usually, if I need something, I use yum search keyword and choose what I
will install thx summary, so I prefer useful and descriptive summary
against a few words


btw... oggconvert :
A simple GNOME application that converts media files to Free formats

lets see PackageKit :
System daemon that is a DBUS abstraction layer for package management

its even longer...

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Old 11-20-2008, 04:24 PM
Richard Hughes
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 17:46 +0100, Michal Hlavinka wrote:
> If PackageKit has some troubles with displaying long summaries, you
> should fill bug against PackageKit not against every package with long
> summary

Ohh, it's not got a problem with long names (well, the web plugin has,
but that's a design problem) -- it's mainly that different packages
treat the summary as different things and are overly verbose.

> lets see PackageKit :
> System daemon that is a DBUS abstraction layer for package management
>
> its even longer...

Guilty as charged. I've fixed up the name now.

Richard.


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Old 11-20-2008, 04:29 PM
Richard Hughes
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 14:33 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
> The packaging guidelines have a single sentence on package summaries:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Summary_and_description
>
> "The summary should be a short and concise description of the package"

I've attached a list of packages that are very long or have large number
of words in the summary text.

Worst affected packages are:

atomix
atop
bouml
cohoba
crash
crash-devel
curlftpfs
ddrescue
devede
DivFix++
dwdiff
dxcc
efax
escape
gens
gens
GLC_Player
gmrun
gpsd-devel
gstreamer-plugins-bad-extras
gtk-sharp2-gapi
htdig-web
khmeros-fonts-handwritten
liblicense-cli
libnjb
libsvm-devel
mod_suphp
nautilus-search-tool
node
perl-Bit-Vector
perl-Carp-Clan
perl-GO-TermFinder
perl-HTTP-BrowserDetect
perl-IPC-Run3
perl-Lingua-EN-Numbers-Ordinate
perl-Object-MultiType
perl-Schedule-Cron-Events
php-pear-PHP-CompatInfo
ppl-gprolog-static
ppl-yap-static
rmap
R-RScaLAPACK
rss2email
smc
smstools
tcldom
tclxml
twolame
wraplinux
xmlsec1
xqilla
xqilla10
yum-remove-with-leaves
yum-rpm-warm-cache

Most important from a desktop point of view (likely to be shown in the
deps dialog) are:

atomix
bouml
cohoba
devede
DivFix++
fslint
gens
gmrun
nautilus-search-tool

Is there an automated way to get the maintainer email address for a
package? Then I can email the maintainers semi-automatically rather than
create ~60 bug reports.

Richard.

len:63 words:13 package:gens text:'Gens is a win32/unix Sega Genesis / Sega CD / Sega 32X emulator'
len:67 words:13 package:smc text:'2D platform game that uses OpenGL in a style similar to Super Mario'
len:61 words:13 package:gstreamer-plugins-bad-extras text:'Extra GStreamer bad plugins (less often used bad plugins)'
len:67 words:14 package:devede text:'DeVeDe is a program to create video DVDs and CDs (VCD, sVCD or CVD)'
len:76 words:13 package:twolame text:'TwoLAME is an optimised MPEG Audio Layer 2 encoding library based on tooLAME'
len:67 words:13 package:smc text:'2D platform game that uses OpenGL in a style similar to Super Mario'
len:61 words:13 package:gstreamer-plugins-bad-extras text:'Extra GStreamer bad plugins (less often used bad plugins)'
len:67 words:14 package:devede text:'DeVeDe is a program to create video DVDs and CDs (VCD, sVCD or CVD)'
len:76 words:13 package:twolame text:'TwoLAME is an optimised MPEG Audio Layer 2 encoding library based on tooLAME'
len:76 words:13 package:atop text:'An advanced interactive monitor to view the load on system and process level'
len:64 words:13 packageerl-Bit-Vector text:'Efficient bit vector, set of integers and big int math library'
len:78 words:13 packagepl-gprolog-static text:'The static archive for the GNU Prolog interface of the Parma Polyhedra Library'
len:70 words:15 package:yum-rpm-warm-cache text:'Yum plugin to access the rpmdb files early to warm up access to the db'
len:67 words:13 packagehp-pear-PHP-CompatInfo text:'Find out version and extensions required for a piece of code to run'
len:76 words:14 package:escape text:'A fun puzzle game in the tradition of Adventures of Lolo or Chip's Challenge'
len:76 words:14 package:atomix text:'Little mind game where you have to build molecules out of atoms lying around'
len:75 words:13 package:gmrun text:'Lightweight Run program dialog box with search history and tab completion'
len:67 words:13 package:xqilla-devel text:'XQilla is an XQuery and XPath 2.0 library, built on top of Xerces-C'
len:78 words:13 packagepl-yap-static text:'The static archive for the YAP Prolog interface of the Parma Polyhedra Library'
len:68 words:14 package:rss2email text:'Deliver news from RSS feeds to your smtp server as text or html mail'
len:79 words:14 package:yum-remove-with-leaves text:'Yum plugin to remove dependencies which are no longer used because of a removal'
len:64 words:13 packageerl-IPC-Run3 text:'Run a subprocess in batch mode (a la system) on Unix, Win32, etc'
len:75 words:13 package:curlftpfs text:'CurlFtpFS is a filesystem for accessing FTP hosts based on FUSE and libcurl'
len:67 words:13 packageerl-Object-MultiType text:'Perl Objects as Hash, Array, Scalar, Code and Glob at the same time'
len:79 words:14 packageerl-Lingua-EN-Numbers-Ordinate text:'Perl functions for giving the ordinal form of a number given its cardinal value'
len:65 words:14 package:wraplinux text:'Utility to wrap a Linux kernel and initrd into an ELF or NBI file'
len:79 words:13 packageerl-HTTP-BrowserDetect text:'Determine the Web browser, version, and platform from an HTTP user agent string'
len:62 words:13 package:dwdiff text:'Front end to diff for comparing files on a word per word basis'
len:76 words:14 packageivFix++ text:'A program to repair broken AVI file streams by rebuilding index part of file'
len:105 words:14 package:xmlsec1-devel text:'Libraries, includes, etc. to develop applications with XML Digital Signatures and XML Encryption support.'
len:63 words:13 packageerl-Carp-Clan text:'Report errors from perspective of caller of a clan of modules'
len:73 words:13 package:GLC_Player text:'GLC_Player is an Open Source software used to view 3d models (OBJ Format)'
len:67 words:13 package:xqilla10 text:'XQilla is an XQuery and XPath 2.0 library, built on top of Xerces-C'
len:75 words:13 package:dxcc text:'Small utility which determines the ARRL DXCC entity of a ham radio callsign'
len:87 words:12 package:R-RScaLAPACK text:'An interface to perform parallel computation on linear algebra problems using ScaLAPACK'
len:81 words:12 package:crash text:'crash utility for live systems; netdump, diskdump, kdump, LKCD or mcore dumpfiles'
len:68 words:13 package:ddrescue text:'Data recovery tool trying hard to rescue data in case of read errors'
len:78 words:14 package:tcldom text:'TclDOM is a package that provides a DOM binding for the Tcl scripting language'
len:57 words:13 package:efax text:'A program for faxing using a Class 1, 2 or 2.0 fax modem.'
len:77 words:16 package:nautilus-search-tool text:'A Nautilus extension to put Search for Files on the context menu of folders'
len:67 words:13 package:xqilla10-devel text:'XQilla is an XQuery and XPath 2.0 library, built on top of Xerces-C'
len:70 words:13 package:htdig-web text:'Scripts and HTML code needed for using ht://Dig as a web search engine'
len:76 words:13 package:smstools text:'Tools to send and receive short messages through GSM modems or mobile phones'
len:76 words:14 package:xmlsec1 text:'Library providing support for XML Signature and XML Encryption standards'
len:75 words:13 package:libnjb text:'A software library for talking to the Creative Nomad Jukeboxes and Dell DJs'
len:80 words:13 package:mod_suphp text:'An apache2 module for executing PHP scripts with the permissions of their owners'
len:76 words:13 package:tclxml text:'TclXML is a package that provides XML parsing for the Tcl scripting language'
len:62 words:13 packageerl-Schedule-Cron-Events text:'Take a line from a crontab and find out when events will occur'
len:71 words:14 package:libsvm-devel text:'Header file, object file, and source files of libsvm in C, C++ and Java'
len:119 words:21 package:gtk-sharp2-gapi text:'Glib and GObject C source parser and C generator for the creation and maintenance of managed bindings for Mono and .NET'
len:81 words:12 package:crash-devel text:'crash utility for live systems; netdump, diskdump, kdump, LKCD or mcore dumpfiles'
len:78 words:14 package:cohoba text:'Cohoba is a GNOME interface for Telepathy. It aims to be innovative and simple'
len:79 words:14 package:node text:'Simple node front end, modelled after the node shells of TheNet and G8BPQ nodes'
len:78 words:16 package:rmap text:'Rmap is a package that is able to generate images of the earth from a distance'
len:75 words:13 packageerl-GO-TermFinder text:'Identify GO nodes that annotate a group of genes with a significant p-value'
len:76 words:15 package:bouml text:'UML2 tool box to specify and generate code in C++, Java, IDL, PHP and Python'
len:69 words:14 package:liblicense-cli text:'CLI tool for choosing a user default license or the license of a file'
len:79 words:13 package:khmeros-fonts-handwritten text:'Handwritten Khmer font set created by Danh Hong of the Cambodian Open Institute'
len:69 words:14 package:gpsd-devel text:'Client libraries in C and Python for talking to a running gpsd or GPS'
len:67 words:13 package:xqilla text:'XQilla is an XQuery and XPath 2.0 library, built on top of Xerces-C'
len:63 words:13 package:gens text:'Gens is a win32/unix Sega Genesis / Sega CD / Sega 32X emulator'
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:40 PM
Seth Vidal
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, Richard Hughes wrote:


On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 14:33 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:

The packaging guidelines have a single sentence on package summaries:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Summary_and_description

"The summary should be a short and concise description of the package"


I've attached a list of packages that are very long or have large number
of words in the summary text.

Worst affected packages are:

atomix
atop
bouml
cohoba
crash
crash-devel
curlftpfs
ddrescue
devede
DivFix++
dwdiff
dxcc
efax
escape
gens
gens
GLC_Player
gmrun
gpsd-devel
gstreamer-plugins-bad-extras
gtk-sharp2-gapi
htdig-web
khmeros-fonts-handwritten
liblicense-cli
libnjb
libsvm-devel
mod_suphp
nautilus-search-tool
node
perl-Bit-Vector
perl-Carp-Clan
perl-GO-TermFinder
perl-HTTP-BrowserDetect
perl-IPC-Run3
perl-Lingua-EN-Numbers-Ordinate
perl-Object-MultiType
perl-Schedule-Cron-Events
php-pear-PHP-CompatInfo
ppl-gprolog-static
ppl-yap-static
rmap
R-RScaLAPACK
rss2email
smc
smstools
tcldom
tclxml
twolame
wraplinux
xmlsec1
xqilla
xqilla10
yum-remove-with-leaves
yum-rpm-warm-cache

Most important from a desktop point of view (likely to be shown in the
deps dialog) are:

atomix
bouml
cohoba
devede
DivFix++
fslint
gens
gmrun
nautilus-search-tool

Is there an automated way to get the maintainer email address for a
package? Then I can email the maintainers semi-automatically rather than
create ~60 bug reports.


email to:

pkgname-owner@fedoraproject.org


-sv

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Old 11-20-2008, 04:40 PM
Richard Hughes
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 08:38 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> Okay. Please fill in other examples so packagers and reviewers can
> get
> a feel for what to cut and when it's good to depart from the general
> rules and put it on the wiki under PackagingDrafts. Then add it to
> the
> list of things for the Packaging Committee to discuss.
>
> We can link it from this portion of the full Guidelines:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Summary_and_description

Okay, I'll do that when we've got more agreement on the wording:

Many GUI packaging tools make the summary more prominent than the
package name. The summary is often a better description for the end user
when making a decision about installing. To make the user's experience
better here, we try to have short succinct summaries that don't repeat
information in the name.

For instance, the following are over long, or repeat the program name:

* System daemon that is a DBUS abstraction layer for package management
* XQilla is an XQuery and XPath 2.0 library, built on top of Xerces-C
* DeVeDe is a program to create video DVDs and CDs (VCD, sVCD or CVD)

The following would be good replacements:

* Package management framework
* XQuery and XPath 2.0 library
* Create video DVDs and CDs

How does that sound? Anyone got any better words?

Richard.


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Old 11-20-2008, 04:44 PM
Michael Schwendt
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:46:42 +0100, Michal Hlavinka wrote:

> Usually, if I need something, I use yum search keyword and choose what I
> will install thx summary, so I prefer useful and descriptive summary
> against a few words

"yum search" also searches the package %description. And the description
is the place where to be much more verbose than in the summary. The
%summary is not made for searching, but for enabling the installer and
packaging tools to to display a brief and concise package description or a
list thereof. That means, put a few relevant keywords in the summary
(newspaper headline-style at most), but avoid long/complete sentences as
often as possible. That also makes it easier to fit into one line.

> btw... oggconvert :
> A simple GNOME application that converts media files to Free formats

"GNOME media file converter" would be enough to raise user's interest
in clicking to look up the longer description.

> lets see PackageKit :
> System daemon that is a DBUS abstraction layer for package management
>
> its even longer...

Because it tries to squeeze too many low-level details into the
summary instead of expanding in the description.

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Old 11-20-2008, 04:45 PM
Mamoru Tasaka
 
Default RFC: fix summary text for lots of packages

Richard Hughes wrote, at 11/21/2008 02:29 AM +9:00:
> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 14:33 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
>> The packaging guidelines have a single sentence on package summaries:
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Summary_and_description
>>
>> "The summary should be a short and concise description of the package"
>
> I've attached a list of packages that are very long or have large number
> of words in the summary text.

Current rpmlint complains if %description has more than "79 characters".
i.e. The packages you listed as worst all meet rpmlint criterion.

If you have a reasonable reason you want to have these packages modified,
file against rpmlint first with showing good reason, otherwise your bug
reports will surely confuse many reviewers and maintainers.

Mamoru

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