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Old 11-20-2008, 04:39 AM
Jesse Keating
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

I just attempted to compose the Games spin for Fedora 10, and ran into a
number of packages that fail their %post scripts due to missing one
thing or another out of coreutils (such as ln, rm, file, etc..) and it
has me wondering what might have changed in recent time so that
coreutils wouldn't be installed earlier in the transaction. This seems
like something that would have been noticed before, but maybe it's just
in the particular package set that the games spin has.

Either way, if anybody wants to look into this, that'd be good.

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Old 11-20-2008, 04:25 PM
Jeremy Katz
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 21:39 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> I just attempted to compose the Games spin for Fedora 10, and ran into a
> number of packages that fail their %post scripts due to missing one
> thing or another out of coreutils (such as ln, rm, file, etc..) and it
> has me wondering what might have changed in recent time so that
> coreutils wouldn't be installed earlier in the transaction. This seems
> like something that would have been noticed before, but maybe it's just
> in the particular package set that the games spin has.

It's actually a pretty common phenomenon related to packagers thinking
they're "always" there because they are except in the case of new
installs. coreutils is actually surprisingly late in install order and
so there are pretty frequent packages which pop up expecting otherwise
(and there always have been; I've been filing bugs about them for longer
than I like to remember :-)

Jeremy

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Old 11-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 12:25 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> It's actually a pretty common phenomenon related to packagers thinking
> they're "always" there because they are except in the case of new
> installs. coreutils is actually surprisingly late in install order and
> so there are pretty frequent packages which pop up expecting otherwise
> (and there always have been; I've been filing bugs about them for longer
> than I like to remember :-)

Fair enough. I didn't see any such messages in my other installs, so
these packages are probably far enough off the radar that this isn't
typically seen.

Would this be something to check for during package review? Init a
chroot @core <package> listed in the init call and see what errors pop
up?

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Old 11-20-2008, 05:46 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

Jeremy Katz wrote:

On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 21:39 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:


I just attempted to compose the Games spin for Fedora 10, and ran into a
number of packages that fail their %post scripts due to missing one
thing or another out of coreutils (such as ln, rm, file, etc..) and it
has me wondering what might have changed in recent time so that
coreutils wouldn't be installed earlier in the transaction. This seems
like something that would have been noticed before, but maybe it's just
in the particular package set that the games spin has.



It's actually a pretty common phenomenon related to packagers thinking
they're "always" there because they are except in the case of new
installs. coreutils is actually surprisingly late in install order and
so there are pretty frequent packages which pop up expecting otherwise
(and there always have been; I've been filing bugs about them for longer
than I like to remember :-)

Jeremy


We can look at binaries to see what libs they need, can we not look at
%post scripts and figure out if coreutils is required?


--CjD

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Old 11-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Jeremy Katz
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 13:46 -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote:
> Jeremy Katz wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 21:39 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> >> I just attempted to compose the Games spin for Fedora 10, and ran into a
> >> number of packages that fail their %post scripts due to missing one
> >> thing or another out of coreutils (such as ln, rm, file, etc..) and it
> >> has me wondering what might have changed in recent time so that
> >> coreutils wouldn't be installed earlier in the transaction. This seems
> >> like something that would have been noticed before, but maybe it's just
> >> in the particular package set that the games spin has.
> >
> > It's actually a pretty common phenomenon related to packagers thinking
> > they're "always" there because they are except in the case of new
> > installs. coreutils is actually surprisingly late in install order and
> > so there are pretty frequent packages which pop up expecting otherwise
> > (and there always have been; I've been filing bugs about them for longer
> > than I like to remember :-)
> >
> We can look at binaries to see what libs they need, can we not look at
> %post scripts and figure out if coreutils is required?

Scripts (assuming not using a different interpreter) are run via bash
which means that in theory you could use bash --rpm-requires. But that
has a lot of holes and problems

Jeremy

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Old 11-20-2008, 05:56 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Casey Dahlin <cdahlin@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
> We can look at binaries to see what libs they need, can we not look at %post
> scripts and figure out if coreutils is required?

Or have a two phase install, one where we put the minimum OS down, and
the second where we install your apps. Come on - coreutils isn't an
addon package.

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:12 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

Colin Walters wrote:

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Casey Dahlin <cdahlin@redhat.com> wrote:


We can look at binaries to see what libs they need, can we not look at %post
scripts and figure out if coreutils is required?



Or have a two phase install, one where we put the minimum OS down, and
the second where we install your apps. Come on - coreutils isn't an
addon package.


Special cases are the enemy of all good design. We shouldn't solve a
problem by adding one.


--CJD

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:19 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Casey Dahlin <cdahlin@redhat.com> wrote:

> Special cases are the enemy of all good design. We shouldn't solve a problem
> by adding one.

How could one even propose using shell script without coreutils
installed? What are you going to do in that script?

Requires(post): coreutils strikes me as just an exercise in bloating
the dependency graph. This mindset of putting core OS bits and random
third party applications in the same mental category of "package" and
applying the exact same rules to them is just wrong.

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:28 PM
"Dan Nicholson"
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Jeremy Katz <katzj@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 13:46 -0500, Casey Dahlin wrote:
>> Jeremy Katz wrote:
>> > On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 21:39 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
>> >> I just attempted to compose the Games spin for Fedora 10, and ran into a
>> >> number of packages that fail their %post scripts due to missing one
>> >> thing or another out of coreutils (such as ln, rm, file, etc..) and it
>> >> has me wondering what might have changed in recent time so that
>> >> coreutils wouldn't be installed earlier in the transaction. This seems
>> >> like something that would have been noticed before, but maybe it's just
>> >> in the particular package set that the games spin has.
>> >
>> > It's actually a pretty common phenomenon related to packagers thinking
>> > they're "always" there because they are except in the case of new
>> > installs. coreutils is actually surprisingly late in install order and
>> > so there are pretty frequent packages which pop up expecting otherwise
>> > (and there always have been; I've been filing bugs about them for longer
>> > than I like to remember :-)
>> >
>> We can look at binaries to see what libs they need, can we not look at
>> %post scripts and figure out if coreutils is required?
>
> Scripts (assuming not using a different interpreter) are run via bash
> which means that in theory you could use bash --rpm-requires. But that
> has a lot of holes and problems

This may only be in rpm5, but if you use full paths to the programs
(/bin/rm, etc.), aren't the dependencies resolved by rpm?

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Dan

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:34 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default requires(post) on coreutils

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 14:19 -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> How could one even propose using shell script without coreutils
> installed? What are you going to do in that script?
>
> Requires(post): coreutils strikes me as just an exercise in bloating
> the dependency graph. This mindset of putting core OS bits and random
> third party applications in the same mental category of "package" and
> applying the exact same rules to them is just wrong.

That's the fun thing about %post, it doesn't have to be bash. The fact
that it is for most people is just implementation details. People could
write their post scripts in csh, lua, whatever. The point is that the
package installation system needs to know what your package needs before
it's scripts can be ran. Trying to set some arbitrary level of "OS
bits" and "applications" is doomed to fail. We have a system that
handles the ordering for us, it just needs a few hints along the way.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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