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Old 11-19-2008, 09:47 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

This question is (for now) most a question of interest and curiosity.
Maybe one day I may be bored and try to rewrite Bugzilla, who knows.

My question is, what do we need/want/like from Bugzilla? There are
several competing products, and I doubt we engineer type people use it
"just because". I'm also assuming that we use it for reasons other
than because of RedHat.

Can the unique features be enumerated for me?

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Old 11-20-2008, 10:29 AM
Matej Cepl
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

On 2008-11-19, 22:47 GMT, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> There are several competing products, and I doubt we engineer
> type people use it "just because". I'm also assuming that we
> use it for reasons other than because of RedHat.

Well, to make your list shorter (i.e., with one item):

* To be able to support number of products, components, users,
hits per second as Bugzilla does. Problem I heard of all
competing products (trac, jira, etc.) is that they are lovely
when you are talking about one project with few components, but
when you get to clustering databases and similar magic, all of
them fail pretty badly.
* of course, open source -- just to be safe that there isn't some
Microsoft/Oracle/whatever closed source thing, which can manage
it.

Matěj

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Old 11-20-2008, 12:17 PM
David Timms
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

Arthur Pemberton wrote:

My question is, what do we need/want/like from Bugzilla?

wishes:
- be able to note a weirdity, failure to configure correctly etc, that
is listed firstly as an issue, and could progress to a bug = triaged to
repeatable steps. alternately, it moves to a FAQ (solve it with a few
simple steps), or a detailed config howto page (ie user just wants free
config help).


- prompt the reporter for symptom, with clear examples:
- box wouldn't start in normal graphical desktop
- box wouldn't get to boot
- service failed to start
- app failed to start at all
- text application stopped, saying SEGFAULT
- application showed a bug/crash dialog
- application disappeared from my screen
- app function didn't work as it previously did
- app function didn't work as expected
- desktop stopped responding
- box stopped responding
ie: to a person of basic computer knowledge, what did the issue look like

- a separate by-line for me-too comments (eg I got that on x86_64, I
got it on a "piece of old carpet" things that people tend to add to
bugzilla / bugs.launchpad etc. These can server as breadth of issue
marker, but aren't really clarifying a bug, with option to add hardware
id from smolt. [ x ] I experienced this symptom and my smolt hardware
dsecription is [http://smotls.y.z/12345656]


- a way to mark a me-too comment as "me-too".

- a link to a workaround eg in wiki or similar

- text to flow properly when you don't have the browser window full
screen width; currently especially the top fields in the window.
- comment body to be able to flow to the full width of the window, not
restricted by invisible right hand side images/columns whatever.
- auto wrap for long <pre> lines, perhaps inserting " " at end of each
line.


- helper for what the bug component might be, perhaps drilling down
through queries like [at boot, before login, after login, running
program]...


- once a component is selected, provide fedoraproject links {open in new
tab} like:

- bug.r.c open bugs for that component
- bug.r.c all most recent 25 bugs for that component
- link to viewcvs toplevel for the package {devel links with pretty
icons}

- link to most recent commits for the package
- list to all koji builds for package.
- list to bodhi info for package, especially comment/karma page
- show most recent updates and updates-testing packages, with recent
changelogs

- a way to trigger yum/PK check for update and offer to install it.
- " " " " " " " " update-testing and offer to install
- " " " " " " " " rawhide and offer to install

Just some thought, DaveT.

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Old 11-20-2008, 12:41 PM
"Nicolas Mailhot"
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

Le Jeu 20 novembre 2008 12:29, Matej Cepl a écrit :
>
> On 2008-11-19, 22:47 GMT, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> There are several competing products, and I doubt we engineer
>> type people use it "just because". I'm also assuming that we
>> use it for reasons other than because of RedHat.
>
> Well, to make your list shorter (i.e., with one item):
>
> * To be able to support number of products, components, users,
> hits per second as Bugzilla does. Problem I heard of all
> competing products (trac, jira, etc.) is that they are lovely
> when you are talking about one project with few components, but
> when you get to clustering databases and similar magic, all of
> them fail pretty badly.
> * of course, open source -- just to be safe that there isn't some
> Microsoft/Oracle/whatever closed source thing, which can manage
> it.

Add to this
- feature completeness
- familiar UI
- integration with upstream issue trackers (which are often bugzilla too)

For all its cranks bugzilla is familiar to a lot of bug reporters that
use all the features added over time.

Any replacement must be at least as feature-full as bugzilla (not
simpler because it forgets to do some stuff) and offer a bugzilla-like
mode for existing reporters that do not have the time to learn yet
another reporting UI.

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Old 11-20-2008, 05:57 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:

Le Jeu 20 novembre 2008 12:29, Matej Cepl a écrit :


On 2008-11-19, 22:47 GMT, Arthur Pemberton wrote:


There are several competing products, and I doubt we engineer
type people use it "just because". I'm also assuming that we
use it for reasons other than because of RedHat.


Well, to make your list shorter (i.e., with one item):

* To be able to support number of products, components, users,
hits per second as Bugzilla does. Problem I heard of all
competing products (trac, jira, etc.) is that they are lovely
when you are talking about one project with few components, but
when you get to clustering databases and similar magic, all of
them fail pretty badly.
* of course, open source -- just to be safe that there isn't some
Microsoft/Oracle/whatever closed source thing, which can manage
it.



Add to this
- feature completeness



True, but kind of redundant. This thread seems purposed to define what
"feature completeness" means for us.



- familiar UI



I've always hated these sorts of requirements. "Its wrong, but we should
keep it because its always been wrong." WTF?! Let them adapt and
survive. If we were always worried about this sort of thing we'd still
be using Windows, and most of the reason Windows is crap largely because
of its insistence on stone-age-compliance.



- integration with upstream issue trackers (which are often bugzilla too)




Does Bugzilla really do much in this regard? It doesn't seem to.
Launchpad is supposed to grow good cross-site integration features just
before it goes open source, but we've been waiting on both of those
things for awhile now (and also Launchpad sucks. A lot.) Either way I
think a new bug tracker would be an opportunity to improve on this point.



For all its cranks bugzilla is familiar to a lot of bug reporters that
use all the features added over time.

Any replacement must be at least as feature-full as bugzilla (not
simpler because it forgets to do some stuff) and offer a bugzilla-like
mode for existing reporters that do not have the time to learn yet
another reporting UI.



I'll add another bulletpoint.
- Must be something we can talk RHEL in to using.

Fedora and RHEL need to be in the same bug tracker. That's probably the
biggest obstacle.


--CJD

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:01 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

David Timms wrote:

- a way to trigger yum/PK check for update and offer to install it.
- " " " " " " " " update-testing and offer to
install

- " " " " " " " " rawhide and offer to install
The greatest bug report experience I ever witnessed was when a friend
reported a kernel bug. After a short exchange a maintainer came back
with a koji link and said "here, try this." The new package worked.


I'd like to see more of that kind of thing, and automating it would be a
good way to go.


--CJD

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:26 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

Arthur Pemberton wrote:

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Casey Dahlin <cdahlin@redhat.com> wrote:


Launchpad
is supposed to grow good cross-site integration features just before it goes
open source, but we've been waiting on both of those things for awhile now
(and also Launchpad sucks. A lot.) Either way I think a new bug tracker
would be an opportunity to improve on this point.



Maybe this changed, but I am pretty sure that LaunchPad is closed source.


Its supposed to become open source, but they want to complete the
inter-instance integration stuff first (because there should never ever
ever be two independent sets of launchpad data ever, according to their
philosophy).


--CJD

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:45 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 13:02 -0600, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> Agreed. Which is one of the major driving factors for this
> questionnaire thread. I figure Bugzilla must be doing some things
> right.

It's not that it's doing things right, it's just too cost prohibitive to
create something else to do the same things in the same predictably
wrong way (:

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Old 11-20-2008, 06:58 PM
Matej Cepl
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

On 2008-11-20, 18:57 GMT, Casey Dahlin wrote:
> Either way I think a new bug tracker would be an opportunity to
> improve on this point.

Great, write one ;-).

Matěj

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Old 11-20-2008, 07:08 PM
Nicolas Mailhot
 
Default What do we need from Bugzilla? (was: My roadmap for a better Fedora)

Le jeudi 20 novembre 2008 à 13:57 -0500, Casey Dahlin a écrit :

> I've always hated these sorts of requirements. "Its wrong, but we
> should
> keep it because its always been wrong." WTF?! Let them adapt and
> survive. If we were always worried about this sort of thing we'd
> still
> be using Windows, and most of the reason Windows is crap largely because
> of its insistence on stone-age-compliance.

Bugzilla is used by 10s of other open source projects. Any experienced
Fedora bug reporter will have used the issue trackers of those project
and be used to their interface.

You can offer a "better" façade for new users but if you don't *also*
offer the façade experienced bug reporters are used to you will
instantly lose reports from all the people most suceptible to write
something useable.

That's what the projects that use the sf POS or launchpad do not
understand

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