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Old 11-14-2008, 03:11 PM
Warren Togami
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

I ran into an application yesterday that seemed to make pulseaudio
daemon fail. After a lot of digging, someone else realized that this
application was actually using OSS output. OSS currently grabs /dev/dsp
(provided by snd-pcm-oss), making it appear that pulseaudio has "failed".

OSS applications are so rare these days, I did not even consider that it
was using OSS. This is likely to be a rare but repetitive source of
confusion in the future.

Removing snd-pcm-oss makes /dev/dsp disappear (which is a good thing).
Even with /dev/dsp gone, padsp wrapper allows an OSS app to output to
pulseaudio. Only this isn't a good permanent solution because we do not
want LD_PRELOAD wrapping everything.

I think perhaps during F11 we should do the following:

1) alsa-plugins-pulseaudio seems to be the key package someone must
remove if they really want to disable pulseaudio on their system. This
package could ship a /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-oss file listing
snd-*-oss modules. This way OSS comes back if pulseaudio is disabled.

2) If someone REALLY wants OSS mixed in their pulseaudio desktop, they
can use padsp. This should be documented loudly in release notes. This
is no different from F9 and F10.

3) Later make /dev/dsp redirection to pulseaudio permanent without LD
hacks with the proposed FUSD? What is the status of this?

Warren Togami
wtogami@redhat.com

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Old 11-14-2008, 09:42 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 11:11 -0500, Warren Togami wrote:
> I ran into an application yesterday that seemed to make pulseaudio
> daemon fail. After a lot of digging, someone else realized that this
> application was actually using OSS output. OSS currently grabs /dev/dsp
> (provided by snd-pcm-oss), making it appear that pulseaudio has "failed".
>
> OSS applications are so rare these days, I did not even consider that it
> was using OSS. This is likely to be a rare but repetitive source of
> confusion in the future.

Just remove OSS support from the kernel. ALSA has been the default since
the 2.6.0 kernel (that's 5 years ago), and even apps that use OSS
emulation through ALSA will block any other use of the sound card
(whether PulseAudio is present or not).

There's no sound mixing (through ALSA or PulseAudio) when OSS emulation
is used in ALSA. Kill it (and file a bug against the app).

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Old 11-15-2008, 02:37 AM
Callum Lerwick
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 23:42 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 11:11 -0500, Warren Togami wrote:
> > I ran into an application yesterday that seemed to make pulseaudio
> > daemon fail. After a lot of digging, someone else realized that this
> > application was actually using OSS output. OSS currently grabs /dev/dsp
> > (provided by snd-pcm-oss), making it appear that pulseaudio has "failed".
> >
> > OSS applications are so rare these days, I did not even consider that it
> > was using OSS. This is likely to be a rare but repetitive source of
> > confusion in the future.
>
> Just remove OSS support from the kernel. ALSA has been the default since
> the 2.6.0 kernel (that's 5 years ago), and even apps that use OSS
> emulation through ALSA will block any other use of the sound card
> (whether PulseAudio is present or not).
>
> There's no sound mixing (through ALSA or PulseAudio) when OSS emulation
> is used in ALSA. Kill it (and file a bug against the app).

The proprietary Flash plugin was the main justification for keeping OSS
the last time this came up. This is no longer the case.

Kill OSS emulation, kill it dead. A Fedora 11 feature perhaps?
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:22 PM
Leszek Matok
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

Dnia 2008-11-14, o godz. 21:37:10 Callum Lerwick <seg@haxxed.com> napisał(a):

> On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 23:42 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> > Just remove OSS support from the kernel.
(...)
> > Kill it (and file a bug against the app).
> The proprietary Flash plugin was the main justification for keeping OSS
> the last time this came up. This is no longer the case.
>
> Kill OSS emulation, kill it dead. A Fedora 11 feature perhaps?
Please don't kill it dead. Just disable by default, remove auto-loading magic,
but allow me to modprobe snd_pcm_oss if I want. Flash is one thing, but don't
forget about my Doom 3!

Lam
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:26 PM
Michael Cronenworth
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict
From: Leszek Matok <Lam@Lam.pl>
To: fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
Date: 11/17/2008 10:22 AM



but allow me to modprobe snd_pcm_oss if I want. Flash is one thing, but don't
forget about my Doom 3!

Lam




Doom 3 has ALSA support.

http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/#head-8c36163f1dfc3a253ef72c0f821b0b0dd2fc17b1

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Old 11-17-2008, 03:53 PM
Gilboa Davara
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 17:22 +0100, Leszek Matok wrote:
> Dnia 2008-11-14, o godz. 21:37:10 Callum Lerwick <seg@haxxed.com> napisał(a):
>
> > On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 23:42 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> > > Just remove OSS support from the kernel.
> (...)
> > > Kill it (and file a bug against the app).
> > The proprietary Flash plugin was the main justification for keeping OSS
> > the last time this came up. This is no longer the case.
> >
> > Kill OSS emulation, kill it dead. A Fedora 11 feature perhaps?
> Please don't kill it dead. Just disable by default, remove auto-loading magic,
> but allow me to modprobe snd_pcm_oss if I want. Flash is one thing, but don't
> forget about my Doom 3!
>
> Lam

At least on my Audigy 2SZ (which uses the same emu10k1 driver), Doom3,
Quake4 and ETQW works just fine (@surround 5.1) w/ the alsa driver.

- Gilboa

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Old 11-17-2008, 03:56 PM
Matthew Woehlke
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

Leszek Matok wrote:

Callum Lerwick wrote:

Kill OSS emulation, kill it dead. A Fedora 11 feature perhaps?

Please don't kill it dead. Just disable by default, remove auto-loading magic,
but allow me to modprobe snd_pcm_oss if I want. Flash is one thing, but don't
forget about my Doom 3!


I'm confused. Earlier in the thread it was said to use padspa to provide
an OSS interface via PA.


But Callum said "kill OSS emulation". I /think/ that means something
other than providing "OSS" via padspa, but I'm not sure? Clarification
would be nice.


--
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Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:15 PM
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 10:56 -0600, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> I'm confused. Earlier in the thread it was said to use padspa to provide
> an OSS interface via PA.
>
> But Callum said "kill OSS emulation". I /think/ that means something
> other than providing "OSS" via padspa, but I'm not sure? Clarification
> would be nice.

Removing/blocking ALSA's OSS emulation, i.e., the
snd-{pcm,seq,mixer}-oss modules.

--
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznet@gmail.com>

PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed
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Old 11-17-2008, 07:50 PM
Leszek Matok
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

Dnia 2008-11-17, o godz. 18:53:53 Gilboa Davara <gilboad@gmail.com> napisał(a):

> At least on my Audigy 2SZ (which uses the same emu10k1 driver), Doom3,
> Quake4 and ETQW works just fine (@surround 5.1) w/ the alsa driver.
It doesn't work at all on my ENS1371 (according to ALSA, it has 44099 Hz
output ) and produces the "metallic" sound on my on-board HDA Intel. There
are some non-working tricks using dmix (which I can't be bothered to learn to
use), but the only working and at the same time easy to configure (like one
click in the in-game GUI) solution is to use OSS emulation.

Quake 4, on the other hand, claims to use OpenAL and works properly.

Please don't kill snd_pcm_oss completely

Lam
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Old 11-17-2008, 08:04 PM
Warren Togami
 
Default F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict

Callum Lerwick wrote:


The proprietary Flash plugin was the main justification for keeping OSS
the last time this came up. This is no longer the case.

Kill OSS emulation, kill it dead. A Fedora 11 feature perhaps?



How long ago was this? Flash 7 did esd output by default before it fell
back to OSS.


Warren

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