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Old 11-11-2008, 05:50 PM
Dan Horák
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.

We agree that Desktop is important part of the system, it is highly
visible to the public and large number of Fedora users. But we also see
a large number of Fedora and CentOS users and RHEL customers with very
specific needs and demands. We can not omit the server fundamentals that
later create a successful enterprise product and in our opinion a formal
entity must exist to coordinate these efforts.

That's why we started work on establishing the Fedora Server SIG. The
draft is available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DanHorak/ServerSIG
Any constructive ideas are welcome :-)


Dan

--
Dan Horák
Software Engineer, BaseOS

Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkyňova 99, 612 45 Brno

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Old 11-11-2008, 06:04 PM
"Colin Walters"
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Dan Hork <dan@danny.cz> wrote:
> There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
> orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
> Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.
>
> We agree that Desktop is important part of the system, it is highly
> visible to the public and large number of Fedora users. But we also see
> a large number of Fedora and CentOS users and RHEL customers with very
> specific needs and demands. We can not omit the server fundamentals that
> later create a successful enterprise product and in our opinion a formal
> entity must exist to coordinate these efforts.
>
> That's why we started work on establishing the Fedora Server SIG. The
> draft is available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DanHorak/ServerSIG
> Any constructive ideas are welcome :-)

Sounds like a great idea; as you state, I think it is important to
have a voice for the more conservative server side in Fedora to
counterpoint the fast-moving desktop.

In addition to the list of goals you have there, I would suggest:

* Create an official minimal server spin image, link to it on
fedoraproject.org/get-fedora (when we do this, we can relegate the
choose-your-own-adventure DVD images to a secondary page)
* Consider creating a landing point page for all the admin
technologies in Fedora (kickstart, cobbler, etc.) Does one exist now?

Do you plan to create a mailing list, or use this one?

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Old 11-11-2008, 06:17 PM
Dennis Gilmore
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

On Tuesday 11 November 2008 12:50:41 pm Dan Hork wrote:
> There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
> orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
> Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.
>
> We agree that Desktop is important part of the system, it is highly
> visible to the public and large number of Fedora users. But we also see
> a large number of Fedora and CentOS users and RHEL customers with very
> specific needs and demands. We can not omit the server fundamentals that
> later create a successful enterprise product and in our opinion a formal
> entity must exist to coordinate these efforts.
>
> That's why we started work on establishing the Fedora Server SIG. The
> draft is available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DanHorak/ServerSIG
> Any constructive ideas are welcome :-)

I fully agree that there should be a server SIG. When I was at FISL this year
I was amazed that parts of the Brazilian Govt. run fedora on all of there
machines, from server to desktop. There is no reason that they couldn't help
with the server SIG, along with RHEL customers, and anyone else who has an
intrested in driving forward the direction that Fedora and derivatives move in
regards to running on servers. I've also run and continue to run fedora
servers.

If there was a server spin i would think it would be just enough to have yum
working there are so many different server purposes. *I think a better thing
would be to have kickstart files with different pre-configured systems. *mail
server, web server, db server etc. *along with kickstarts for setting up
infrastructure, puppet server, dhcp, dns, etc. *perhaps enhancing system-
config-kickstart with the predefined roles to allow customisation or a web
version.

Along with kickstarts *there needs to be whitepapers documenting best
practices. *setting up things like func, koan, cobbler. * showing how the
whole infrastructure can be managed using best practices and open source
tools. *This is where the server SIG can really win. Fedora Infrastructure is
a great place to look for a open forward thinking, functional infrastructure
team

There is also the whole kit and kaboodle of monitoring and alerting, cacti,
nagios, zabbix. *then the security monitoring, audit, snort, prelude and
freinds. *There is a huge scope to work with.

Thanks for bringing this forward.

Dennis

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Old 11-11-2008, 06:27 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

Dennis Gilmore wrote:


If there was a server spin i would think it would be just enough to have yum
working there are so many different server purposes. I think a better thing
would be to have kickstart files with different pre-configured systems.


That isn't unique to servers. Is there some reason not to do that in
general and allow anyone to submit package lists to create machines
tuned for any purpose?


--
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:06 PM
"Martin Langhoff"
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Dan Hork <dan@danny.cz> wrote:
> There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
> orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
> Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.

I am definitely interested in this track. Right now in the middle of a
release of the OLPC School Server (so a bit swamped) but count me in.

Server tasks deserve love and attention, and make Fedora viable in
low-end and embedded platforms as well.

cheers,



m
--
martin.langhoff@gmail.com
martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Old 11-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Doug Ledford
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 19:50 +0100, Dan Hork wrote:
> There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
> orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
> Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.
>
> We agree that Desktop is important part of the system, it is highly
> visible to the public and large number of Fedora users. But we also see
> a large number of Fedora and CentOS users and RHEL customers with very
> specific needs and demands. We can not omit the server fundamentals that
> later create a successful enterprise product and in our opinion a formal
> entity must exist to coordinate these efforts.
>
> That's why we started work on establishing the Fedora Server SIG. The
> draft is available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DanHorak/ServerSIG
> Any constructive ideas are welcome :-)

I'll help.

--
Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com>
GPG KeyID: CFBFF194
http://people.redhat.com/dledford

Infiniband specific RPMs available at
http://people.redhat.com/dledford/Infiniband

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Old 11-11-2008, 08:12 PM
"Jon Ciesla"
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

> There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
> orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
> Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.
>
> We agree that Desktop is important part of the system, it is highly
> visible to the public and large number of Fedora users. But we also see
> a large number of Fedora and CentOS users and RHEL customers with very
> specific needs and demands. We can not omit the server fundamentals that
> later create a successful enterprise product and in our opinion a formal
> entity must exist to coordinate these efforts.
>
> That's why we started work on establishing the Fedora Server SIG. The
> draft is available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DanHorak/ServerSIG
> Any constructive ideas are welcome :-)

I'm in. I run a side business on all Fedora servers. People think I'm
nuts. I love the up-to-date software and stability. And I upgrade via
yum.

>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Horák
> Software Engineer, BaseOS
>
> Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purky?ova 99, 612 45 Brno
>
> --
> fedora-devel-list mailing list
> fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
>


--
in your fear, speak only peace
in your fear, speak only love

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Old 11-11-2008, 09:36 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

Les Mikesell wrote:

Dennis Gilmore wrote:


If there was a server spin i would think it would be just enough to
have yum working there are so many different server purposes. I
think a better thing would be to have kickstart files with different
pre-configured systems.


That isn't unique to servers. Is there some reason not to do that in
general and allow anyone to submit package lists to create machines
tuned for any purpose?


Nothing except people like you with an interest should volunteer and
participate.


Rahul

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Old 11-12-2008, 07:51 AM
Dan Horák
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

Colin Walters p*še v Út 11. 11. 2008 v 14:04 -0500:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Dan Horák <dan@danny.cz> wrote:
> > There were many discussions in the past few days and weeks about the
> > orientation Fedora currently has. It is a fact that currently
> > Fedora is primarily desktop oriented.
> >
> > We agree that Desktop is important part of the system, it is highly
> > visible to the public and large number of Fedora users. But we also see
> > a large number of Fedora and CentOS users and RHEL customers with very
> > specific needs and demands. We can not omit the server fundamentals that
> > later create a successful enterprise product and in our opinion a formal
> > entity must exist to coordinate these efforts.
> >
> > That's why we started work on establishing the Fedora Server SIG. The
> > draft is available at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DanHorak/ServerSIG
> > Any constructive ideas are welcome :-)
>
> Sounds like a great idea; as you state, I think it is important to
> have a voice for the more conservative server side in Fedora to
> counterpoint the fast-moving desktop.
>
> In addition to the list of goals you have there, I would suggest:
>
> * Create an official minimal server spin image, link to it on
> fedoraproject.org/get-fedora (when we do this, we can relegate the
> choose-your-own-adventure DVD images to a secondary page)

The spin is already covered by existing goals, I think.

> * Consider creating a landing point page for all the admin
> technologies in Fedora (kickstart, cobbler, etc.) Does one exist now?
>

I don't think that such page exists, but it really should.

> Do you plan to create a mailing list, or use this one?
>

The plan is to create and use fedora-server list.


Dan

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Old 11-12-2008, 08:06 AM
Dan Horák
 
Default starting Fedora Server SIG

Les Mikesell p*še v Út 11. 11. 2008 v 13:27 -0600:
> Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> >
> > If there was a server spin i would think it would be just enough to have yum
> > working there are so many different server purposes. I think a better thing
> > would be to have kickstart files with different pre-configured systems.
>
> That isn't unique to servers. Is there some reason not to do that in
> general and allow anyone to submit package lists to create machines
> tuned for any purpose?

Yes, it will be interesting to see what packages will come in when you
issue "yum --installroot=/your/new/server/disk install grub kernel
initscripts bash yum" :-)


Dan


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