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Old 11-10-2008, 04:10 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net) said:
> ▶ package splits, to offer more flexibility to spin groups and fedora
> users

...
> ▶ help spins and users
>
> Wanting serif from dejavu, mono from liberation, and sans from tiresias,
> without dragging in all the other dejavu/liberation/tiresias fonts is a
> valid setup.

This sounds like severe overkill. If they want different scripts, why
not just adjust their fontconfig configuration? Realistically, I can't
think of an example where we'd want to ship dejavu for one script but
not another. Do you have one?

It's not as if the split would save that much space on any normal
install.

Bill

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Old 11-10-2008, 04:36 PM
"Muayyad AlSadi"
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

I consider dejavu the only complete font collection and I want all of its fonts

maybe because I don't have to read CJK scripts and I'm not sure if
dejavu supports them

but dejavu are the only generic fonts that supports Arabic in fedora
(other Arabic fonts are arabic only fonts)

to me dejavu is a must and there is no use of splitting them

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Old 11-10-2008, 04:53 PM
Nicolas Mailhot
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

Le lundi 10 novembre 2008 * 12:10 -0500, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
> Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net) said:
> > ▶ package splits, to offer more flexibility to spin groups and fedora
> > users
>
> ...
> > ▶ help spins and users
> >
> > Wanting serif from dejavu, mono from liberation, and sans from tiresias,
> > without dragging in all the other dejavu/liberation/tiresias fonts is a
> > valid setup.
>
> This sounds like severe overkill. If they want different scripts, why
> not just adjust their fontconfig configuration? Realistically, I can't
> think of an example where we'd want to ship dejavu for one script but
> not another. Do you have one?

Actually dejavu is a bad example because everyone wants it. I only did
it because it's a complex and complete package that could stress the
macros (also because it's my main package).

But for the other font packages, it's very common to want only one font
in a collection (for example all our artists use one mgopen font but not
the others, we only need one font installed by default for each script
to support it in the default install, etc).

Also that makes dynamic font installation possible: when a document or
web page references a font you can just install the corresponding
package and not drag megs of unrelated fonts that just happened to be
released by the same entity.

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Old 11-10-2008, 04:59 PM
Behdad Esfahbod
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le lundi 10 novembre 2008 * 12:10 -0500, Bill Nottingham a écrit :
>> Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net) said:
>>> ▶ package splits, to offer more flexibility to spin groups and fedora
>>> users
>> ...
>>> ▶ help spins and users
>>>
>>> Wanting serif from dejavu, mono from liberation, and sans from tiresias,
>>> without dragging in all the other dejavu/liberation/tiresias fonts is a
>>> valid setup.
>> This sounds like severe overkill. If they want different scripts, why
>> not just adjust their fontconfig configuration? Realistically, I can't
>> think of an example where we'd want to ship dejavu for one script but
>> not another. Do you have one?

I have to agree with Bill here. It's overkill. Also note that, the more font
packages we have, means the more font directories we have (unless we stuff
fonts from different packages in the same dir), which means more work to do at
each application startup (we mmap() one cache file per font dir). On my
system any application mmap's 150 cache files right now. Don't make that 150.
The cost is nonnegligible; on the order of 1ms per cache file.

behdad

> Actually dejavu is a bad example because everyone wants it. I only did
> it because it's a complex and complete package that could stress the
> macros (also because it's my main package).
>
> But for the other font packages, it's very common to want only one font
> in a collection (for example all our artists use one mgopen font but not
> the others, we only need one font installed by default for each script
> to support it in the default install, etc).
>
> Also that makes dynamic font installation possible: when a document or
> web page references a font you can just install the corresponding
> package and not drag megs of unrelated fonts that just happened to be
> released by the same entity.
>
>

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Old 11-10-2008, 05:22 PM
Nicolas Mailhot
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

Le lundi 10 novembre 2008 18:59 +0100, Behdad Esfahbod a crit :

> Also note that, the more font
> packages we have, means the more font directories we have (unless we stuff
> fonts from different packages in the same dir),

Right now separate subpackages share the same directory. Precisely
because the cost of a fc-cache run is smaller than multiplying font
directories (and the splitting macros even enforce that which was not
the case of all the manual packaging we did before).

So on this front, controlled macroized split will make the situation
better, not worse.


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Old 11-10-2008, 07:35 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net) said:
> > This sounds like severe overkill. If they want different scripts, why
> > not just adjust their fontconfig configuration? Realistically, I can't
> > think of an example where we'd want to ship dejavu for one script but
> > not another. Do you have one?
>
> Actually dejavu is a bad example because everyone wants it. I only did
> it because it's a complex and complete package that could stress the
> macros (also because it's my main package).

Then we shouldn't build it as split...

Bill

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Old 11-10-2008, 09:09 PM
Nicolas Mailhot
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

After a long irc discussion with Bill Nottingham, I've reworked the
package splitting rule in:

« When packaging an upstream font archive that contains different font
families (different font names in GUI font dropdowns), one must split
each font family in a separate subpackage. Each subpackage must include
every upstream-provided font face (bold, italic, condensed, oblique…) of
the corresponding font family.

As a special exception a packager is allowed to optionally keep
sans/serif/mono latin families of the same name together.

When upstream releases separate font archives, just create separate
packages. »

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fonts_SIG_Fedora_11_packaging_changes#Split_big_fo nt_packages_on_font_family_lines

Practically, that would make splitting (or not) Bitstream Vera,
Liberation and GNU FreeFont a packager per packager decision.

Regards,

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Old 11-11-2008, 12:01 PM
Nicolas Mailhot
 
Default Fedora 11 font package changes proposal (renames, splits, etc)

Le lundi 10 novembre 2008 * 17:17 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot a écrit :

> To proof it some more I've separated the common macro, spec templates
> and directory definitions in a separate package, then modified three
> font packages to use it:
> — dejavu: multiple font families, multiple fontconfig files,
> — theokritos: single font family and fontconfig file,
> – vera: multiple font families and no config file
>
> It all works with the same macros, factors out the magic and reduces
> average font package complexity.
>
> (and hopefully the number of mistakes on has to correct in review)
>
> What do people think of it ?
>
> http://nim.fedorapeople.org/rpm-fonts/

I've released a new version with some fontconfig templates added in. I
hope Behdad will find some time to review them.

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