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Old 11-06-2008, 11:15 PM
Brian Pepple
 
Default FESCo Meeting Summary for 2008-11-05

=== Members Present ===
* Brian Pepple (bpepple)
* Jarod Wilson (j-rod)
* Bill Nottingham (notting)
* Jon Stanley (jds2001)
* Karsten Hopp (kick_)
* Kevin Fenzi (nirik)

=== Members Absent ===
* Josh Boyer (jwb)
* David Woodhouse (dwmw2)
* Dennis Gilmore (dgilmore)

== Summary ==
=== Features ===
* After evaluating Empathy(1) with Colin Walters (walters) and
Will Woods (wwoods), FESCo felt that Empathy wasn't ready at
this time to become the default IM client for Fedora 10. This
was due to some missing features and bugs in comparison to
Pidgin. The plan is to reevaluate Empathy for Fedora 11, since
most of the current issues should be resolved for Gnome 2.26.
1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Empathy
* wwoods had a suggestion for the feature process that the Scope
section have *specific* features that are expected, and the Test
Plan have *specific* directions on how to ensure those features
are present and working.

IRC log can be found at:
http://bpepple.fedorapeople.org/fesco/FESCo-2008-11-05.html

/B
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Old 11-07-2008, 05:41 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default FESCo Meeting Summary for 2008-11-05

Brian Pepple wrote:


=== Features ===
* After evaluating Empathy(1) with Colin Walters (walters) and
Will Woods (wwoods), FESCo felt that Empathy wasn't ready at
this time to become the default IM client for Fedora 10. This
was due to some missing features and bugs in comparison to
Pidgin. The plan is to reevaluate Empathy for Fedora 11, since
most of the current issues should be resolved for Gnome 2.26.
1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Empathy
* wwoods had a suggestion for the feature process that the Scope
section have *specific* features that are expected, and the Test
Plan have *specific* directions on how to ensure those features
are present and working.


This is really late to be switching default apps. A lot of time gets
wasted in testing, documenting changes in release notes that already
been translated into dozens of languages etc that would have avoided by
making changes like this earlier in the release cycle and no later than
the feature freeze. This is not to the say, that I disagree with the
decision itself. Just that it is very very late.


Rahul

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Old 11-07-2008, 05:53 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default FESCo Meeting Summary for 2008-11-05

On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 00:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> This is really late to be switching default apps. A lot of time gets
> wasted in testing, documenting changes in release notes that already
> been translated into dozens of languages etc that would have avoided by
> making changes like this earlier in the release cycle and no later than
> the feature freeze. This is not to the say, that I disagree with the
> decision itself. Just that it is very very late.

In this case, it's a switch /back/ to what has been the default for
years. Far far less risky then switching to something /new/ at this
point.

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Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:44 PM
Paul Wouters
 
Default FESCo Meeting Summary for 2008-11-05

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote:


* After evaluating Empathy(1) with Colin Walters (walters) and
Will Woods (wwoods), FESCo felt that Empathy wasn't ready at
this time to become the default IM client for Fedora 10. This
was due to some missing features and bugs in comparison to
Pidgin. The plan is to reevaluate Empathy for Fedora 11, since
most of the current issues should be resolved for Gnome 2.26.


I notice on my F9 copy of Empathy that there is no support for MSN or AIM
on the default Empahty install i got (even though the 'help' claims supports
it).

More importantly, I see no OTR support. Which means this default app change
is like going from ssh to telnet.

is not to the say, that I disagree with the decision itself. Just that it is
very very late.


I do disagree with a switch. And I do hate pidgin with a vengance.

Paul

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Old 11-08-2008, 01:35 AM
Paul Wouters
 
Default FESCo Meeting Summary for 2008-11-05

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008, Stu Tomlinson wrote:


On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Paul Wouters <paul@xelerance.com> wrote:

And I do hate pidgin with a vengance.


May I ask why?


I've CC:ed the fedora list, though you gave me a private reply, because I
thought the large list of bugs might be useful to someone. Hope that's okay.

- It is the 2nd largest memory consuming application running (after firefox)
using up 10% of my total memory:
6698 paul 20 0 843m 96m 15m S 0.0 9.6 16:43.17 pidgin
And I am not a super consumer, only 25 friends and 5 irc channels online now.
- It is prone to crashes and freezes (once every couple of days)
- Somewhere it lost "reconnect all accounts", and I need to click reconnect per
account.
- Somewhere it lost the ability to be clever and allow typing when the 'focus'
was on the receiving part of a conversation window. Now that typing is lost
until you click on the small input box.
- Somewhere between gaim-beta 2.0 and pidgin it lost all concepts of
workspaces, resulting in my buddy list being unmovable from the screen
I started from (often with my conversation screen stuck in another workspace)
This results in some really crappy things. If my buddy list is in workspace 1
and I am working in worspace 2, and someone initiates a talk this happens. If
I then later want to talk to someone else, i have to double flip through
workspaces (or move one of the windows manually to the other workspace).
The old gaim I could just left click the top icon twice to move the buddy list
from one workspace to the other.
- Leaves a mess in /tmp/
- Combined user accounts lead to strange things due to pidgin seemingly picking
randomly whch user account to use, which causes problems with OTR.
- The file transfer function is completely unreliable and often fails silently,
eg the other end does not even see you're trying to send them a file.
- Buddylist window icon at the bottom turns blue ("attention") grabbing when
some event has fixed itself, leaving me to wonder what requires my attention.
- When i have more tabs open then fit in the window, and I'm at the right most
tab, and I got a new mesage in a tab that's scrolled off screen at the left,
I can only go there by going through the tabs, causing them to lose the 'unread'
state.
- Once every couple of months, some accounts turns to "unvisible" (might be an

MSN/AIM protocol thing, not something pidgin can help)
- irc handling of nicknames when briefly bouncing is bad. You'll fight with your
own old nick, and with freenode you then lose the ability to privmsg.
(not sure if that is fixiable in a client, not really pidgin's fault probably)

For the features I am using, I've mostly seen a downgrade in usability
since gaim2 beta, and a buggier client. I still use it because I think it is
the best client out there right now, but I'd jump ship if there was another
more usable client, though for me the OTR plugin is a mandatory feature I want
to have. I can't switch to empathy without it.

Paul

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Old 11-10-2008, 12:15 PM
Matej Cepl
 
Default FESCo Meeting Summary for 2008-11-05

On 2008-11-07, 23:44 GMT, Paul Wouters wrote:
> I notice on my F9 copy of Empathy that there is no support for
> MSN or AIM on the default Empahty install i got (even though
> the 'help' claims supports it).

yum install telepathy-haze

should help here.

Matěj

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