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Old 11-04-2008, 11:47 AM
"Jeffrey Ollie"
 
Default breaking rawhide freeze

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:28 AM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
<dominik@greysector.net> wrote:
> You know, I'm somewhat disappointed in the uneven treatment of packagers here.
> A couple of days ago, I wanted to break the freeze and push an update to gnomeradio
> that would make the application fully usable again (as it is now, it crashes
> every time you try to name a radio station), but I was told (by Jesse himself,
> and some other nice folks) to wait until after F-10 is released, because it
> wasn't "critical enough". And now I'm reading the recent rawhide changelogs
> and seeing non-critical changes being committed, mostly by people @redhat.com.
> I don't want to draw any far-fetched conclusions, but I wonder what's going on
> here. Why was I actively discouraged from pushing my change, which would have
> zero side-effects but would have made gnomeradio in vanilla F-10 fully functional?

>From what I saw in today's (2008/11/04) rawhide report all of the
packages that got updated had some commonalities:

1) Would be in one of the "official" Live images, and therefore
difficult/impossible to update once F10 was released.
2) Security fixes.
3) Very popular apps.

>From what I saw GIMP only fit in category 3, but I think you'd have to
agree that GIMP is a much more widely used app than gnomeradio.

--
Jeff Ollie

"You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then
I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the
terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve
them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and
unfairness of the universe."

-- Marcus to Franklin in Babylon 5: "A Late Delivery from Avalon"

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Old 11-04-2008, 01:10 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default breaking rawhide freeze

On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 13:28 +0100, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
> A couple of days ago, I wanted to break the freeze and push an update to gnomeradio
> that would make the application fully usable again (as it is now, it crashes
> every time you try to name a radio station), but I was told (by Jesse himself,
> and some other nice folks) to wait until after F-10 is released, because it
> wasn't "critical enough".

Can you refresh my memory of the conversation, was it email, irc, or a
releng ticket? I'm pretty sure we would have said after Preview release
but still in before final. About the only tag requests we've turned
down are untested things, and brand new packages.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:54 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default breaking rawhide freeze

On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 06:10:16AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
>On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 13:28 +0100, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
>> A couple of days ago, I wanted to break the freeze and push an update to gnomeradio
>> that would make the application fully usable again (as it is now, it crashes
>> every time you try to name a radio station), but I was told (by Jesse himself,
>> and some other nice folks) to wait until after F-10 is released, because it
>> wasn't "critical enough".
>
>Can you refresh my memory of the conversation, was it email, irc, or a
>releng ticket? I'm pretty sure we would have said after Preview release
>but still in before final. About the only tag requests we've turned
>down are untested things, and brand new packages.

You and I were both involved. You told him to do it as an update on
#fedora-devel.

josh

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Martin Ebourne
 
Default breaking rawhide freeze

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:47:38 -0600, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> From what I saw in today's (2008/11/04) rawhide report all of the
> packages that got updated had some commonalities:
>
> 1) Would be in one of the "official" Live images, and therefore
> difficult/impossible to update once F10 was released.
> 2) Security fixes.
> 3) Very popular apps.
>
> From what I saw GIMP only fit in category 3, but I think you'd have to
> agree that GIMP is a much more widely used app than gnomeradio.

By your list (3) makes no sense. An update can only affect people that
use the package. So the risk-reward ratio of updating a package is not
related to the popularity of a package.

If there's a major fix to gnome-radio this will be very important to
gnome-radio users and zero risk to everyone else. The only risk would be
of extra breakage which only affected gnome-radio users anyway.

Cheers,
Martin

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:23 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default breaking rawhide freeze

On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 13:54 -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 06:10:16AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> >On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 13:28 +0100, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
> >> A couple of days ago, I wanted to break the freeze and push an update to gnomeradio
> >> that would make the application fully usable again (as it is now, it crashes
> >> every time you try to name a radio station), but I was told (by Jesse himself,
> >> and some other nice folks) to wait until after F-10 is released, because it
> >> wasn't "critical enough".
> >
> >Can you refresh my memory of the conversation, was it email, irc, or a
> >releng ticket? I'm pretty sure we would have said after Preview release
> >but still in before final. About the only tag requests we've turned
> >down are untested things, and brand new packages.
>
> You and I were both involved. You told him to do it as an update on
> #fedora-devel.
>
> josh
>

Well, file a ticket if you want re-consideration. We're not above that.
I could have been distracted by the Preview disaster at the time and not
really friendly toward updates.

However I would argue that if you're an internet radio user, you're
likely connected to the Internet and able to get updates....

--
Jesse Keating
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:52 AM
"Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski"
 
Default breaking rawhide freeze

On Tuesday, 04 November 2008 at 23:23, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 13:54 -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 06:10:16AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > >On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 13:28 +0100, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
> > >> A couple of days ago, I wanted to break the freeze and push an update to gnomeradio
> > >> that would make the application fully usable again (as it is now, it crashes
> > >> every time you try to name a radio station), but I was told (by Jesse himself,
> > >> and some other nice folks) to wait until after F-10 is released, because it
> > >> wasn't "critical enough".
> > >
> > >Can you refresh my memory of the conversation, was it email, irc, or a
> > >releng ticket? I'm pretty sure we would have said after Preview release
> > >but still in before final. About the only tag requests we've turned
> > >down are untested things, and brand new packages.
> >
> > You and I were both involved. You told him to do it as an update on
> > #fedora-devel.
>
> Well, file a ticket if you want re-consideration. We're not above that.
> I could have been distracted by the Preview disaster at the time and not
> really friendly toward updates.

Done.

> However I would argue that if you're an internet radio user,
> you're likely connected to the Internet and able to get updates....

Actually, gnomeradio is not for internet radio, but real live FM radio.
It needs a tuner hardware, which is why it took me so long to issue
an update to fix the bug - I didn't have the hardware back in my desktop
until recently.

Regards,
R.

--
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"Faith manages."
-- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations"

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