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-   -   Don't hibernate, crashing is faster. (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/184409-dont-hibernate-crashing-faster.html)

Dimi Paun 10-29-2008 08:29 PM

Don't hibernate, crashing is faster.
 
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 16:19 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> Hibernate is the Wrong Thing.
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/191059/

Absolutely, if you want to shutdown, just crash the box.
Shutdown should be <3s. All the nonsense Fedora does now
with shutting down every daemon is just silly.

However, that has nothing to do with hibernate. This is because
a major reason a person doesn't want to reboot is that the state
of the desktops, apps, etc. is lost. And no crash-only software
can solve that problem.

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Dimi Paun <dimi@lattica.com>
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Callum Lerwick 10-29-2008 09:32 PM

Don't hibernate, crashing is faster.
 
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 17:29 -0400, Dimi Paun wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 16:19 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> > Hibernate is the Wrong Thing.
> >
> > http://lwn.net/Articles/191059/
>
> Absolutely, if you want to shutdown, just crash the box.
> Shutdown should be <3s. All the nonsense Fedora does now
> with shutting down every daemon is just silly.
>
> However, that has nothing to do with hibernate. This is because
> a major reason a person doesn't want to reboot is that the state
> of the desktops, apps, etc. is lost. And no crash-only software
> can solve that problem.

Read closer, that's exactly the problem it solves. Crash only software
restarts in exactly the same state as when it crashed. Like firefox,
only without the dialog...
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Dimi Paun 10-29-2008 09:42 PM

Don't hibernate, crashing is faster.
 
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 17:32 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> Read closer, that's exactly the problem it solves. Crash only software
> restarts in exactly the same state as when it crashed. Like firefox,
> only without the dialog...

Yeah, yeah, but until you instrument every single app to do that
properly, hibernate has its use.

And even if you manage to do that, it's not clear that you want
to get rid of the two things, because starting from a clean slate
has its uses.

Fifefox has little state to save, and sometimes I _have_ to restart
clean 'cause it will be too slow anyway. But good luck to you getting
a complex app to save every freaking bit of crap.

When you're done in the year 2040, we'll look at getting rid of
hibernate. Meanwhile, *today* you need it to operate a laptop
properly.

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Dimi Paun <dimi@lattica.com>
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Les Mikesell 10-30-2008 03:09 AM

Don't hibernate, crashing is faster.
 
Callum Lerwick wrote:

On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 08:06 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
I don't quite understand the obsession with making boot time faster
anyway. Machines should only boot when they have a new kernel to
install. If they aren't needed all the time they should sleep or
hibernate, waking up with everything still running.


Hibernate is the Wrong Thing.

http://lwn.net/Articles/191059/



I'm really more interested in sleeping than hibernating. Restart time
should be 15-20 seconds including typing the password and bringing the
network back up.


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