> -----Original Message-----
> From: fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com
> [mailto:fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Alan Cox
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:40 PM
> To: Development discussions related to Fedora
> Subject: Re: X on tty1 in Rawhide/F10
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 09:29:54AM -0700, Shawn Starr wrote:
> > It is a regression. Why in heck would switching from from
> tty0 to tty1 I see X then switch to tty2 see console again?
> There's a good reason for it being on tty7, so it's out ot
> the fscking (especially when X CRASHES on VT switch back to X
> :P [See ATI, composite mess and all that jazz]).
>
> tty1 is the first tty. tty0 is an alias for "the current console"

Nevermind...nothing to see here...

>
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On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:04:25 +0200, shmuel siegel <fedora@shmuelhome.mine.nu> wrote:

> There were also many alternatives mentioned in this thread. And reasons
> were given as to why this change is a bad idea. [...]

I haven't seen a single one so far. Granted, I only skimmed the
flamewar, looking at messages to which people with clue replied.

-- Pete

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On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:39:47 +0100, Ralf Corsepius <rc040203@freenet.de> wrote:

> Time to evaluate other distros.

I am quaking in my boots.

The old behaviour was retarded, an appendix from the times when
X was an afterthought.

-- Pete

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Ralf Corsepius wrote:

On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 11:29 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:


On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 20:04 +0200, shmuel siegel wrote:

There were also many alternatives mentioned in this thread. And reasons
were given as to why this change is a bad idea. I haven't seen any
response to the alternatives. The typical response to the objections
were either "don't start a flame war" or "who cares about your use
case". Is feedback wanted?


well this thread has gone pretty out of control, so any chance of
getting the people who were actually doing the work to look in on it is
probably not going to happen.


Understood, the almighty RHs knows better, the community is dumb


You know these kinds of conspiracy delusions are associated with some
forms of schizophrenia.


--CJD

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On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 08:55 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 10:57 +0100, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> > Shouldn't be a big deal though, if plymouth does that vt
> > switch right after KMS entered graphics mode and before printing
> > anything on the screen it should went unnoticed.
>
> Good explanation, except that KMS only works for a very limited set of
> ATI graphics cards, and nowhere else.
>

Jesse,

While that is the current state, it isn't the final state. The goal is
have KMS eventually work on all/nearly all cards. Don't dismiss Gerd's
suggestion based on the current state.

Dax Kelson
Guru Labs

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Matthew Woehlke (the-spambots-will-find-you@no.matter.what) said:
> Aside from the obvious question if this wouldn't start out as a
> Fedora-specific kernel patch, why do you assume Fedora will be the only
> distro with this problem? Or is plymouth (and similar technologies)
> expected to remain Fedora-only forever?

I'd like to think it can be used other places, yes. But flopping ttys
based on command line arguments is just *WRONG*, for the reasons stated
already.

For example, right now, the user can customize their init system so that
tty7 is a continually updating 'top'. Or Star Wars piped through libcaca.
So, to do this reliably, you'd have to somehow get 'the specifics of how
the init system is configured' into the kernel, which is getting into
ridiculous levels of convolution.

Bill

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Gerd Hoffmann (kraxel@redhat.com) said:
> Read the mail again. All of it. Last paragraph suggests to run
> plymouth on tty7 to keep the cross-fading effect.

Which either requires disgusting kernel convolutions (as stated
before), or doing it in plymouth userspace... which still gets you
a vt switch, as ttys have been initiated at that point.

Bill

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Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Gerd Hoffmann (kraxel@redhat.com) said:
>> Read the mail again. All of it. Last paragraph suggests to run
>> plymouth on tty7 to keep the cross-fading effect.
>
> Which either requires disgusting kernel convolutions (as stated
> before), or doing it in plymouth userspace... which still gets you
> a vt switch, as ttys have been initiated at that point.

Do it in plymouth userspace of course (requiring a patched kernel would
be insane). Before anything is displayed on the screen, so you switch
from black tty1 to black tty7. No visible flicker, see?

cheers,
Gerd

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